to have another dc in a 2 bed flat?

[mamasmissionimpossible]

DH and I have been considering having a 3rd DC. We have two dc's who share a bedroom. We currently have a two bedroom flat. Do you think it is unfair to put another dc in the only spare bedroom we have?

I think moving home will be some years off, but I know my fertility is not going to stick around forever and we don't want too large an age gap between the dc's. Our dc's are, ds (5) and dd (3).

It's entirely up to you, but I couldn't stand it.
I have one, yep, just one, in a two bed, and sometimes I feel it's too small!

We have a double bedroom each, but the kitchen is small so really only one usable room downstairs.

I'd love another room.

I also think it's important that each family member can have alone time within the home.

I can see I'm in a minority though but I still think it.

I think people need space to think, and space to grow, and to be able to choose whether or not they want to spend time with siblings, not be forced on one another.

Each to their own. I do sometimes long for a huge house but we really dont feel cramped.

I would love a sewing room and an utility room and loads more storage. But then I would only fill it up and be back to square one

I think people need space to think, and space to grow, and to be able to choose whether or not they want to spend time with siblings, not be forced on one another.

Exactly, I currently have 2 in the kitchen decorating cakes, 1 child in her room building lego, Dh in the lounge on the PS3 and me in the study with baby on my lap mumsnetting.
A happy household, move one person and it'll goes pete tong.

I don't think it's the sharing of the bedroom that's the problem esp whilst they're little but I would imagine a small 2bed flat doesn't have a huge amount of living space. Do you think you have enough living space for 3 children?

I think we've all got to make our own decisions but personally, if I had 2 kids in a flat, my priority would be to get them into a house with a garden before I thought about a third.

But then we put off having kids for nearly 10yrs till late 30s to ensure we were finacially far more secure.

I am in my room, teens watching tv in the box room, DS2 playing in his room and DSs 3 & 4 sitting with their daddy in the living room.

I will be down to finish dinner in a sec and we will all sit round the table and eat it.

We still only have 3 bedrooms.

I think the real answer to the OP is that it is personal to the family involved.

What works for one would not work for another.

Many families I work with live in one room. Now that is overcrowding and harmful IMO. 3 kids sharing a room isnt.

But it might be enough to drive one person bonkers and that is fair enough.

But you also have to keep in mind that those who put things off until they "had space" or were "financially far more secure" are now often posting on the "trying to get pregnant in late 30s - is it too late" type of threads.

Realistically speaking - how many people keep the pushchair and the highchair and such in the bedroom for heaven's sake. As far as bedrooms are concerned, it's a cot and a dresser. We keep our pushchair in the boot of the car, it's there when we need it, but out of the way. We have a playpen, but while it's nice, it's certainly not a necessity - lots of people don't have them or don't use them. And that's only for a very short time. By the time they're two or so, the pushchair, the playpen, the highchair can all be gotten rid of. It's temporary.

Living space includes living room, bedrooms, dining room if you have it, kitchen, and rear garden (if you have one as well). Two kids in a flat is certainly not an urgent need to relocate to a house with a garden, if you're happy in the flat. There are parks and other places you can take the children - lots of people function without their own garden.

It's not just a matter of space, but a matter of the future as well. If you have any concern about whether or not you'll have trouble conceiving when you're older and you definitely want to have another, keep in mind that it will possibly be much more difficult to conceive once you hit your late 30s. For some it isn't (we have a 26yo, 24yo, 4yo, and 1yo) but for some it is. And that's certainly something to keep in mind.

I just hate seeing people act like a child not having it's own room or a garden is tantamount to neglect or not providing for your child. It's just nonsense.

Well I did say that sharing a room wasn't a big deal.

As for waiting; I was well aware that I may have been putting my fertility at risk. However, if it was a case of waiting and missing out or doing it earlier, having kids but not being able to financially support them ourselves then I would have chosen the no children route every time. I was desperate to have kids and would have been devastated if I'd left it too late but I actually feel it was my social responsibility not to have them if I couldn't afford them.

However, the OP has not said she can't afford another child just that she's not sure she has the room.

But IMO there's a big difference between being able to afford them and making space. It's all in being creative, isn't it?

And montysorry I know I quoted a couple words of yours, but I wasn't aiming that specifically at you. Just in general. While some people are happy to wait, I personally know a couple that waited until they were financially more secure and are now struggling desperately with decreased fertility and worrying about whether they now will be able to have a child at all. Again, I just felt it was worth a mention.

I was/am an only child and a couple of the houses I lived in growing up were big (not pokey modern) 5 bed detached houses. I was so used to my own space (which I loved at the time) that when I went to uni and had to share with 11 others I found it very hard indeed. Personal space might sound good in the short term but it doesn't prepare kids well for adult life. (I still struggle to share my bedroom with DP of 5 years!)

There are 2 adults, 2 kids in our 2 bed now but if we want personal space there's still plenty of choice. The 3 big rooms (living room, our bedroom and the kids' room), because they are all on one level, are not designated into day and night IYKWIM. I spend more time in my bedroom than living room, but I prefer it this way. I also dont allow consoles so we dont have the probelm of someone hogging one room with that, most unsociable of objects.

Also as our husing costs are so low it frees up disposable income. eg there's a coffee shop on our street that I can go to everyday if I want for peace, without worrying about the cost. Also we use a laundrette 2 blocks along for 90% of our washing so we dont have lots of clothes lying about, just clean, dry, folded clothes ready to be put away whenever we want. We also eat out a fair bit, reducing cooking/washing up time.

If we moved to a bigger house we'd be chained to it!

Triggles, I actually agree with your first statement.

Actually, I wasn't at all happy to wait. As I said, I was desperate to have a baby and it pretty much occupied my mind for a few years prior to getting pregnant. But, I simply wasn't prepared to do it until we could finance it alone.

If we moved to a bigger house we'd be chained to it

Yes you would but you'd also have something to show for your money instead of a few over priced lattes.

I'd also say would you buy a dog without having a garden or would you feel sorry for it all couped up in a flat ?
At least the dog gets walked twice a day or else it craps on your floor, I've seen little toddlers not taken out that often but that was down to the parents circumstances, they moved to a rented house as fast as they could.

thats fucking insulting mamatomany unfortunates!

i don't have a garden and i would not have a dog. i do though have 3 children. they are not dogs and your comparison is inane.

or perhaps only rich people who can afford big houses should be alloed to procreate?

Nobody said you have to be rich. I think she was just saying that children need space. Personally, I think outdoor space is more important than them having their own bedroom but each to their own.

I lived in a 2 bed house with 4 children for a while in London. We gave the 3 youngest the largest bedroom , it was fine and they had lots of play room on the floor. Our eldest had the smaller bedroom as there was an age gap and my DP and I had the living room with a futon - it was absolutely fine. My children mourn those times now that we live in a larger house. We also lived in Japan for a year with 2 children in a miniscule flat (like everyone in Tokyo) and with good organisation it too was fine. I think people in the Uk have got too hung up on each child having their own room. It is lovely to be cosy together. My middle two in their teens still share a room because they don't want to be apart.

And the OP has asked for opinions and in AIBU to boot. No need for anyone to get het up. People want/need different things.

I know a family of 22 who were reared in a house around the size of your apartment

I've also seen toddlers in houses where they had a garden and the parents couldn't be bothered to take them outside to play. That's down to PARENTING, not having a garden. Two entirely different things. People can be "cooped up" in any size property - it's all on how you live, not what you live in.

"If we moved to a bigger house we'd be chained to it

Yes you would but you'd also have something to show for your money instead of a few over priced lattes."

Well, perhaps. But I am more inclined to judge my life based on how happy we are and how well the children are doing rather than owning a house. A house is, after all, still just bricks and mortar. It's not the end all, be all of everything. And why does she need to have something to show for her money? Maybe she prefers a happy family life in a rental property as opposed to stress in a mortgaged property... Just because someone owns a house, it doesn't automatically follow that they are happy. Some people have different needs and different lifestyles. Fine for those who want to, but again not necessary for survival and all.

I grew up in a very large house with extensive grounds and me and my sister had a fantastic childhood. Lets face it , this is very unusual. Like you say your fertility won't wait.

I know a family that live in a vey small 3 bed house with 4 teenagers and 2 large adults, many animals and I have to say I do pity them as it must be hard not to have your own space but needs must and I am sure you will all be fine.

not sure if your flat is mortgaged but a fgew friends of mine have sold their smaller houses / flats and have rented larger accomodation in a cheaper area, is this an option?

Many unfortunates ?? PMSL my children have their own bedrooms, their own room to play and a huge fuck off garden, which probably costs me less than the OP's flat if she's in central London, but my priorities were them above everything else, so their privacy and comfort was considered before we popped out another baby. It's called consideration.

On the continent, where lots of people live in flats, people don't have their own gardens necessarily. They use the local park like a communal garden. My FIL goes there on his way home to play chess/games, have a natter, it's full of children who live in flats. No-one is deprived.

I think the only issue is bedroom space for a teenager, but that's a long way off.

On the continent people build houses on the sides of live volcanoes I don't consider it anything to aspire to.

I don't understand the point - do flat dwellers not take their DC to the park? ???
In Glasgow and much of Scotland many families live in tenements and use local parks for recreation. It's quite nice as you usually meet at least one other family you know in one of the parks. We also have a large back court where the kids can run with their friends.

Many, many, people raise families in flats - look at New York.

We use the parks all the time and the coast. However, it's not quite the same as having half an acre out the back where your toolers/older kids can run in and out of at their leisure for most of the day, climbing trees etc. Nothing beats your own garden IMO.

Mamatomany you are considering your children? Well perhaps but it really sounds as if you are thinking more about what you want from a home. YOu dont want your children to share, you want them to have lots of space and a big fuck off garden.

Lets not pretend its 'all about the kids'

A child sharing a room with a sibling is not deprived, nor is one who doesnt have a garden. Anymore than a child with an ensuite and extensive grounds is assured a happy childhood with wonderful parents.

I cant bear it when people take the high moral ground over issues like this. You have a big house and a big garden. Jolly well done you