To think it is wrong for a surrogate to have a child for two men?

[Extremelychocolatey]

The men in question are Elton John and David Furnish.

link

It feels wrong on so many levels.

you might know for you. PLease do not presume to know for everyone else.

qnd everyone who has ever had a baby has put their own needs first. There are no other needs until you create that person to have them!

Haven't read all 35 pages !!

But at least with Extremelychocolatey's new post we now know where she's coming from on an emotional level.

Was just going to post on my amazement at 35 pages since Tuesday !

My feelings are, having heard a gay couple speak about their experience of adopting -

( at our Quaker annual gathering last year - which led to landmark decision to seek for equality in marriage for same-sex and opposite-sex (traditional) couples within Quaker movement )

• I am really happy with adoption by a variety of couples in loving partnerships, and also by single women.

I am less happy with the whole idea of surrogacy, as I feel it could be heart-breaking for mother, and lead to issues for the child as they grow up.

Nevertheless I wish David and Elton well in their new enterprise !

Having lost my mother at 10, I also know how important a mother is in childs life. To create a baby knowing it will never have a mother is wrong.

I also lost my mother at a young age. That qualifies me to know nothing more than how it feels to lose a known, loved parent. It does not qualify me to decide whether or not another person, who never knew their biological mother, will feel that loss.

why do some of you feel like its all about you. It does not qualify you to speak for anyone other than yourself.

The baby will miss the woman who has carried it for nine months. It will miss her scent and her voice. I'm sure Mr and Mrs Elton John will be lovingif oldparents, but I wonder how much we know about the effects of deliberately removing an infant from the person who gave birth to it. Obviously sometimes this has to happen: women have given away newborn babies. But I feel uneasy about it being done intentionally. I just wonder if it does harm we don't even know about yet.

Absolutely buzzlightbeer and kungfupanda.

A personal response based on your own emotional experience is exactly that. A personal response. Someone else's experience may be entirely different.

A person who lost their mother at a young age may feel that loss as having had a very negative impact on their life.

A person who didn't lose their mother, but had a mother who was abusive, or simply distant, may not feel that having a mother in their life is a positive thing.

And there are infinite different experiences on the spectrum between these two extremes.

With an issue as important and complex as surrogacy, surely most people can see the need to look beyond their own personal experience and realise that their are countless other perspectives to consider.

I find this debate really interesting considering my view on this has changed since becoming a mum 4 months ago. Previously I had no problem at all as long as the child was loved, gender irrelevant. Now however I think every baby should have it's mum. You can't replicate the love of a mum.

.I'm still struggling to understand how its any of your business? Did the general public at large deserve a debate before any of you had a kid?
Then why should you get one about hem having one?

Plus its really insulting to fathers to assume that a mother or her love are just better than theirs.

Gay men earn more than straight. CHildren do better in families which are better off (as long as love etc is there) ergo presumably gay men will be better parents than straight.
How can we even know if men or women are better at bringing up children? There have not been enough gay or straight men using surrogates to test out if they make the best parents but they might well do in which case we could turn the argument around and say - shame on you women for having babies when men do it better. Of course we should instead let people get on with it.

As I said above I think a lot of the thread is sexist (all thise rubbish about mother love being something special which only women have), ageist and homophobic, brings out the true worst in many women.

Gay men earn more than straight. Source?

I think it's pretty simple in the end; some people are better at being parents than others - and this ability is not related to gender, age or sexual orientation. Some people want to be parents more passionately than others; if you are straight and a couple, you will be subject to ferocious pressure to reproduce which may or may not be the right thing for you.

If you are gay, you won't, and you will debate back and forth probably for about 3 years minimum about whether you should become parents (aforementioned anxieties about social disapproval not least amongst the issues - sadly warranted as a minority of people on this thread prove), how you are going to do it - who with, if relevant, how you are going to raise the money. I'm not saying that forethought equates to good parenting, not at all, but at the very least, it has to be a considered decision for gay people with a huge investment of emotion, time and yes, money.

I think my unease about the Elton John/David Furnish thing is to do with my own preconceptions about celebrity lifestyles - which may or may not be true in their case. I just don't know.

"Gay men earn more than straight. Source?" wondered about that too - I think it's that on average gay men have more disposable income, because they are less likely to have offspring

well, that's very interesting - thanks Lenin. All those wasted seminars on lesbian poverty . Clearly I should be even richer than I am

Very true, kmac80. Nothing could sum the issue up better. That is the crux of it and no adult should deliberately deprive a child of their mum.

My money point was only made to make the sexist ageist homophobic posters take stock.

Loving older parents with money are some of the best parents around and I say that despite having been a pretty good 22 year old full time working mother a good few years ago.

I hope they have more children and both get the chance to be genetic fathers.

so basically you had a baby and then realised how massive your own importance is? self absorbed much?

What makes you think you are so much more important than a male parent? Its only backwards fools like you that would make a child miss a mother figure by banging on about what they are missing.