To think it is wrong for a surrogate to have a child for two men?

[Extremelychocolatey]

The men in question are Elton John and David Furnish.

link

It feels wrong on so many levels.

You are wrong, Mycounty.

The majority of British people understand that equality and freedom are one and the same.

The second you unreasonably discriminate against and erode the equal rights of another, everyone's freedom duly suffers. Subscribe to hate for the sheer sake of it and where do we all end up? Equality, freedom and civil liberties are intrinsically intertwined and consequently valued by the sensible. I would guess you are of low intelligence as you obviously labour under the blindfold of blind prejudice.

I pity you. I hope that your children receive a fair and even education in school and manage to grow up without the burden of your bigoted views weighing too heavily upon them .

There are a lot of children in this world who have a mum and a dad but are unloved or neglected. I obviously don't know Elton John or David Furnish so I couldn't say whether I think they'll be good parents but they are in a stable relationship, love each other and really wanted this baby, so hopefully he is going to be very well loved and cherished and that's all you could want for any child. Good luck to them.

sugarmouse. Even tho you have insulted me I felt I must reply. to have a child through surrogacy in Califronia is not a 'long drawn' out process. The couple do not go through any psychological profiling or anything else.
If you have the money, you pick the biological egg donor. The surrogate is then picked from a brochure or with others on line.

The only bar is whether the egg donor/surrogate will volunteer for you if they know you are gay. Elton John and Furnish could have picked anyone, they have a lot of money and will definately have picked women from a strict criteria.

You know nothing about the process, If you want to know anything else about the 'strict laws' of the USA I will be happy to oblige as long as you do not breach the guidelines set to protect MNs from abuse.

I'm not sure what I think....... 2 loving parents.....what more does a baby need???? whether it needs a male and a female parent...... I'm not sure! When there are so many babies in horrendous family situations my gut instinct is that the baby needs a loving home and thats that. But I do think he is too old!!!!

I guess it's not too surprising that on a site called Mumsnet many people are elevating the mothering role as being both far more important and uniquely different from the fathering role, but in my book it's parents that matter, and each and every parent is different. Beyond very early life I don't feel that parents should have to fit into narrowly defined roles, rather each should do what they are best at, responding to their children's needs at the time. It's one of the really nice things about modern parenting that fathers can nurture and mothers go out to work if that works best for a family, or that both parents can split roles. I think in future generations there may be less mother veneration and more focus on parenting as our children grow up and in turn have children of their own.

Personally I think that the ideal is to be surrounded by people who love and support you as you grow up, the more the better really. The nuclear family unit is fairly recent and probably not really the best (too small with the potential for high pressure and probably less resilience too).

'oh and someone saying about insurance for surrogates - ummm yes it is available - yet another ignorant sweeping statement. My surrogate would be frothing at the mouth at some of the comments about co-ercion and baby stealing etc.'

QOD the mention of lack of life insurance came from a link I provided to the website of a surrogacy factory/ clinic in India. It explicitly states that providing life insurance for the surrogate woman might be desirable as obstetrical disasters can occur and the women do not have insurance, and even if it is available, these women are most unlikely to be able to afford it for themselves. And in a society where women are second class citizens (and there is even a caste system) yes, you have to wonder about coercion.

I think they have put their wish of having a baby above the child's needs, and that is very selfish.

I person of 60 having a little baby is just wrong. No matter how famous or rich they are.

I feel sorry for this child.

"I think they have put their wish of having a baby above the child's needs, "

What do most people have babies for?

How do you define the line between having a baby simply because its your wish, and having the child's needs as paramount?

People have babies for all sorts of reasons anyway - I know people who have had a baby to try to save a failing relationship/to fill up their time and avoid going back to work/ to provide someone to love and nurture to help raise their low self esteem.

So how does do you square this?

And why shouldn't a 60 year old become a parent? Where do you draw the cut off line of what is acceptable??

Elton John seems a bit old to be a father. I say that with reserved caution as dh's mentor recently became a father at 71.

I am not an advocate of surrogacy when money changes hands so I do have an issue with that aspect of this conception.

I was intrigued by sakura's post because the only mum I know who has acted as a surrogate did not meet any of the qualifications. She carried a child for a dear friend who was unable to carry a baby to term herself.

from a Certain Socio- Economic Class and I find the practice exploitative

I think if we had no class system very very few women would become surrogates. My friend was from the same class as the family whose baby she carried; they attended the same schools from childhood.

Where is mummy? Heart feels sad that new born baby isn't snuggling into its mummy.

Don't doubt that the baby is very loved though.

Sugarmouse. You did not refer directly to mycounty as a bigot but you referred it, you sem to have very little tolerance for others views as do others, whom I assume have had their lovely comments deleted.

Two men; one 48 the other 63. Both decide they want a baby. Would not be allowed to adopt here. Elton John will be 75 by the time the lads 12, Furnish will be 60. Is that right?

Men can and do bring up 'their' own children successfully, as I was as a child, the hurt that a child goes through from not having a mother is tremendous.
These two men have deliberatley created a child, knowing it will never have a mother.that is very different from a man bringing up a child in different circumstances. My old grandad of 65 wants a baby thourgh his gay younger lover, but can't afford the fees. Donations if you agree with him obtaining one, care of MN please! Please be generous as the cost is £50.000 upwards!

through.

deliberately. must check typing/spelling, when referring to my old grandad!

Sugarmouse. Will you kindly donate to my old grandads 'cause' he only realised later in life that he wanted other children, (he worked on the buses all his life and is not a superstar), and that he was gay. (in any case he couldn't get it up as he's too old! and would need IVF).
He's a nice caring 'old' soul some say 'too old' to have children, but he is now insisting, saying "if it's ok for Elton John, it's ok for me" I said "grandad you are not a super rich singer like Elton, the luvvies are disingenuous to him!" "What's that he says?" I do not bother to explain.

"Suffice to say Grandad, that even if I could raise the cash on MN, the British Legion would not take kindly to you and Julian wheeling in your baby to the bingo night. In any case what sort of a life would it be for a young baby stuck in the British Legion all night? "not as bad as being stuck in a Mansion with Elton and his pal!" he replies. On that he drew on his 40th fag of the day and dragged himself off to bed.

Well, they do have the money o make a comfortable life. EJ age is a bit of a problem - yes. But if you look at how many children are in terrible situations - this really is not a horrid life for a child.

I'm sure they will have tonnes of lovely women around them too, so not sure about hte arguement about only having men in their life

Hello, OP here. Thank you for an interesting discussion. I've decided that I'm not being unreasonable to think it is wrong for two men (one of whom is 60+) to bring a child into the world that will never know who his mother is (egg donor? host surrogate?). I'm neither a homophobe or a bigot but as someone who lost their youngish mother as a teenager and as the adoptive mother of a daughter I know how important a mother is in a child's life.