To think it is wrong for a surrogate to have a child for two men?

[Extremelychocolatey]

The men in question are Elton John and David Furnish.

link

It feels wrong on so many levels.

You didn't answer my question buzz.

haven't seen a sensible question yet.

so your point appears to be that a child is better off never having existed than to be raised by 2 gay men with vast amounts of money, time and love to give him.

how much you wanna bet he disagrees?

Gosh, you do sound homophobic OP - I think YABVU and you haven't even tried to defend your position.

And the 'every child needs a mother' is a load of sexist nonsense.

What children need is two loving parents. Good luck to them, I say.

You mean, Buzz, you're too ungracious to admit you misread my post.

By the way, we've moved on from the 'gay' debate and opened this up to a wider debate on the issues and ethics of assisted conception. Sorry to spoil your little fun, pet.

forgot to add...if you believe in the "traditonal family" so much, how about you have one, and keep your beak out of everyone elses family.

remind us again what business it is of yours who had kids and how?

you may pretend to have moved on from that, but you seem unable to define who you are talking about.
perhaps you could provide us with a list of who can have children and how we cann go about it?

This child will be ok no matter what. He will have plenty of love, care, opportunities, fun and last but not least huge financial security
There are million of children in worse position in this world, not need to worry about this one at all!

I think in an ideal world, Mother and Father are best for a child (after all this is what it takes to create a child). However, we don't live in an ideal world and far better to be brought up by two gay men in a loving stable relatinship with the child's best interstst at heart than by a dysfunctional heterosexual couple.

Dear God, Buzzlight, are you that obtuse?? I certainly don't have time to do a synopsis (with simple notes) of all my posts for you.

Also, if someone starts a thread on hear, I am quite entitled to join in. What is wrong with you??

SugarMouse

Of course there are plenty of people who feel it's okay. I just have disquiet about it and would prefer greater debate about issues like this - at which, of course, there would be lots of different viewpoints. I just think that we may sometimes go too far in circumventing nature's obstacles and there may be consequences that haven't been thought of.

I like it that people are saying so long as the child is part of a "stable loving" family. Is Elton really stable? In a lot of interviews I have seen him in he is a full on Drama Queen.

Poor child will have to work hard to be stable himself. No I am not homophobic, I am just not sure Elton would be a good father.

oh do come on! own your opinions at least.

you say kids need a mother and a father but deny saying that gay men shouldn't have them. which is it? it can't be both.

you say you personally do't like it and thedre should be debate. you are lking about peoples personal private livess and can't uderstand why anyone thinks their opinion is needed or important. the only reason you would need to debate about gay men having children is if you have a problem with it purely becasue they are gay men and therefore not enough. and that is homophobic.

Very intellectual Buzz. Like I said before, if you're too lazy to read my posts I'm not going to do a synopsis of them for you.

Now, I have to go. I'm already late dropping the kids to a party, so happy new year.

the last refuge of the wrong "you don't understand me" and then a flounce.

ttfn.

so women who want to do t can't think for themselves? that brand of feminism is also misogynistic, if we don't wat the same as you we are wrong?

we're all born and we all die, providing what we do in between doesn't hurt anyone and we are generally kind, good people - go for it!

no one's life is perfect and medical intervention is being used everyday to make us better and hopefully happier, so i have no problem with surrogate mothers/ gay parents.

my only problem is that elton john is a drama queen of the highest order and has had many personal problems in his life, drink drugs etc. im sure he's over it all now though??

So called "traditional" families consisting of a mum, a dad and 1 -4 children is a load of rot. Invented only in the last few hundred years. Before that rich families were often absent parents. Poor families had absent parents too - for different reasons. People had lots of children because they didn't have birth control and didn't see the family as a happy single unit.

Even as little as 50 years ago, it was different - my grandmother's generation often had little or no contact with their siblings post leaving home. Not because of any big fall out but simply because once they'd grown, they moved on. She never even met her multiple half brothers and sisters from her father's previous marriage.

I do find it amusing how many people desperately want to retain the "traditional" family when really, western society only invented it relatively recently.

Swanandduck - I entirely disagree that individual experiences and anecdotes have no place in a debate about the "bigger picture". The bigger picture is just a widescreen view of all the little pictures.

I think you are taking a bit too broad a view of the whole issue. You talk a lot about how 'there should be debate' and 'barriers shouldn't be removed' as though it is all a bit theoretical. There are people on this thread who are willing to have that debate, for whom the barriers are relevant, but you don't seem to want go engage on the level of the personal, just the big picture.

I know that Swan has gone now, but I think it's important to note that many children of gay parents in fact have both mothers and fathers in their lives (poor little mites often have a superfluity of parents, rather than a paucity), but that (as Lenin has said several times now) society (at least as expressed through its legal systems) has yet to catch up. But I suspect that none of this would be good enough for her - and I note that she hasn't responded specifically to the point that at least in the UK/EU assisted reproduction is very tightly regulated. I think that she wants to advocate the traditional family unit (husband, wife, children) - but doesn't seem to want to come out and actually say so. I've no problem with her holding that position, but I do think that it needs to be acknowledged that this model isn't perfect either.