my kids havent had lots of expensive presents

[ladysybil]

coz afaik, we cant afford them. (but my situation with dh and finances is another twenty threads and i dont want to get into it on this one). two of them go to private schools which we pay for, as they recive no bursaries. we live in a lovely big house, and have lots to eat and lots of clothes to wear etc.

they got things like a book. slippers. mask painting kit. etc. one thing each from us, and one thing each from their aunts and ds got us all some stuff from the pound shop as well. lovely presents and lovely christmas imo.

people i know in rl have spent a fortune on their kids for christmas. one lady i know has got her boys an ipad each. they already had laptops. most boys in ds's class have iphones or blackberries, plus all the assorted game things wii etc. ds has neither a phone ( he lost it, twice) nor a laptop (which he actually needs for schoolwork)

are my kids deprived? they think so

well. You have scared me off. I am, according to this thread, an extremely selfish person. a bad parent. disorganised, and not a proper muslim either.
I shall take these thing on board and try to deal with them properly.

just one last thing about ds1's phone. he lost his first one within a month. his second one he lost at least three times. he wont take care of it. he wont charge it. he wont have it on him when he should. i gave him my old one with a new sim in it, and he lost that too. Until he can take care of a phone, even a cheap one, I dont think i should keep on buying him phones, despite the fact that i think he needs them.

mumsnet has decided i am a bad person. :(

YANBU about the phone but I think you already know that and I can see why you would think twice about a laptop. If a lap top is really needed, rather than wanted, definitely get a cheap one and look into insurance policies.

child cruelty and sexism as well.
:(

Ladysybil - MN is not an entity with one mind. Some people on MN have had a go at you, which happens in AIBU, and others have supported you.

Some people never read even the op properly and just pick up points that they wish to address; others only read the op and never any other posts by the OP so miss out on further info and comment accordingly.

In the end, it's a multitude of responses you got here - it's up to you what you take away from this but rest assured that you are NOT a bad person - you are a caring mother who has been flamed for posting in AIBU and having a few different ideas about what is right for your family. For all we know, they might be completely right - we can only go on the info we are given by you.

ladysybi
dd doesnt get more spent on her because i am making up for her going to state school. that is an assumption that some mumsnetter made. she gets more spent on her, such as clothes shoes, jewellry etc, because she is a girl

Do not see the cruelty thing at all. I can also understand different DC can have different needs that require different schools but how on earth can the sentence girls need more money spent on them be anything other than sexist?

i know what you are saying thumbplumbm and thanky ou for remindin gme. that is why i am not flouncing off. mumsnet can be a wonderful place and sometimes, just like the realworld, it isnt. last night i went to bed in tears because of networkguys post. as you said, people can only comment on what they read. but then he sent me a very thoughtful link.
i can only do what i can within my limitations. I know i have done what i could to make a good christmas. but i also know that if i killed myself trying, i could have done more.
i;m going to go do some real life stuff now. :(

YOu can buy laptops for 250.00 they have to be a specific specification becaue they have to have the same programmes that they use at school/college.

My son could not complete his A levels without a laptop.

My children even though I'm just average have had access to their OWN computers since they were both 11. One is now 22 and the other is 17.

I think it is detrimental to their education to not get them their own computer. Laptop or PC.

Don't be such a tight ass.

What did the kids get for Eid?

Do all A-levels need laptops? I'm sure that can't be true.

If the lad needs a laptop for school work then it should be treated as necessary school equipment, not a gift, imho. Perhaps OP could even share her own laptop that cost amount with the DS. Or buy a family laptop that the lad has first call on.

Man, if there's one thing MN has taught me it's never to buy a DC a new phone, they just get lost repeatdly, don't they?!

i have been following this thread with curiosity and am quite astounded really. Actually, to me it highlights just how bad things have become, just how over endulged some children are. Love is the most important thing in my mind, love and happiness in a home. I understand about a child wanting to fit in and not feel different but i tell you this, my husband grew up in a family who didn't have much money but sent all three children to public schools. One found a 'proper' career, the other two were successful in their own way but ALL three grew up surrounded by wealthier children and did not have what they had but ALL three grew up happy and secure and had (whilst at school) great friends who did not judge them on a material level. Personally i wouldn't want my dd to hang out with people that were found such importance on material things, not all teenagers/kids do, i think some learn that side of life from their parents......new money certainly from what i have observed has alot to do with it, keeping up with the jones's. My dd cannot have a tv in her bedroom and knows there is NO WAY she can, she knows how i feel about this. She is only nearly 8 but knows of children in her class who have a multitude of things like that. We can afford them but i don't feel the need to show off or try and impress indirectly the other parents. When she is older she will have a mobile and a laptop but as for all the other stuff, perhaps but not because of what other children have, blimey, no wonder there are so many children out there spoilt with bad attitude. Depends on where you live/what sort of person you are. I won't be dictated to as to what my child has because of some spoilt brats at school. If a kid isn't happy unless you shower them with 'all the latest shite' then that kid isn't getting the right grounding. Not so sure about slippers but i don't really think it matters, the child shouldn't have it drilled into them to follow everyone else or to try and be in with them by having what they do. Nice kids won't pick on them for not having all the latest crap. Children need more guidance as when i was a kid there weren't all this material gadgets for young people, far better times.

IHeartKittens I said basically that a little of what you fancy does you good, no need to break the bank or pile on the expensive presents, and also if you're going to celebrate Christmas (even though you're not Christian), and the DCs expect that Christmas will be celebrated in the materialistic sense, then you need to at least have the cash in the envelope on the right day either don't do it at all or do it as the DCs have come to expect, on the right day, and there is a definite need to communicate to the DCs how things will be if their expectations seem unrealistic.

The reality is that it seems a lot of the schoolmates will be receiving Christmas presents, celebrating Christmas in the traditional English way, and when you choose to send your children to a school like that you need to be aware of the ramifications of that for your children and either communicate your own values clearly to them (for example -- 'we will not be doing the present-palooza thing because we are Muslim and we have our own religious celebrations and traditions') or go with the flow to some extent.

But this seems more like a storm in a teacup than a case of deprivation. LadyS had what she thought was a lovely Christmas, then compared what other women had given their DCs for Christmas to what she could (as far as she knows) afford for her DCs and seems to feel miserable about it, and the DCs seem to think they are deprived. WRT the laptop that is needed for school, yes, the boys have a point. WRT the generally nice family atmosphere and the comfort of the home, no they are not deprived imo.

There seems to be some compare and contrast exercise going on on the part of LadySybil here however, and maybe the nagging feeling that the DCs may be right? Whatever it is, it seems to be exacerbated by the fact that she is not privy to the state of the family finances and does not seem to really have any input into how the family money is spent -- maybe a bit more say in the family financial affairs would make LadyS feel better about her lot, and better able to determine whether the children are right or not?

I think the DCs may seem disappointed about Christmas but what they are really expressing is discomfort with what they see as a difference between their mother's position in the family, power-wise, and how they perceive their peers' mothers; the Christmas thing may be just a symbol of a culture clash between their family and the family dynamics of their peers. The children may be aware of who controls the purse strings in the family and may be dimly aware that their peers' mothers are not in the dark about family finances.

Mathanxiety - sorry I misinterpreted your previous post (poorly). Agree with you entirely.

Sorry - by (poorly) meant (I am poorly). Wretched laptop.

Apologies you went to bed crying, ladysybil, but it is far from clear just what aspects are a priority.

I can see that if DS1 cannot be bothered / trusted with a mobile phone, manage to charge it, let alone look after it sufficient for it not to get lost, then a laptop is way down the list of things to consider, until proven able to keep a 10 quid mobile safe for 4+ months, charge it, and not just leave it in the safety of home so it cannot get lost.

I don't know whether you did buy an expensive laptop for yourself, or whether someone latched onto your post where you suggested a budget of 600+ (back in September), which I assume was for consideration as a purchase not for you but for DS1. However, if you had the cash then, did some of it get spent on presents for Eid ?

My main 'gripe' has been about having an iPhone on contract which is probably not an essential, and is costing how much per year ?

As you've indicated, finances are a whole different and lengthy subject, but rather than judge you a poor parent, maybe you can see from our side that we don't know how your DC feel about how Christmas could have been spent, what you did for Eid, whether you bought a laptop for yourself (or not) and so on.

Having an iPhone, posting about whether to get the iPhone 5 when available (which implies continuing with a contract, probably costing you 300 or more per year... and that could be on the low side) does seem a bit off.

You've been feeling guilty about not being organised enough to put some cash in an envelope, and having seen the amount some others have spent (whether it be 50 quid or 150 quid (*)), it is much more than you spent. Now that's perhaps understandable if Eid presents were significant, but not quite so understandable if food, clothes, and heating a large house are used as justification for limiting spending on gifts.

I have no wish to be mean or pick on you - I have questioned one or two aspects, such as spending on a mobile where the saving could easily be put towards other items, unless you fee your mobile needs to be an iPhone rather than a cheap PAYG where could top up with a fiver a month, or less frequently...

I seriously doubt anyone can justify needing an iPhone or Android, or one of the more costly Blackberry, unless such a device is paid for by an employer as they insist on it for compatibility with other employees and facilities expected to be used by staff.

(*) to be honest hearing of some spending several hundred pounds in total [whether for a partner or each child] does seem excessive to me. I have known some go to excess, such as a couple [distant relations] where they had 24 gifts each, one for each hour of Christmas Day, and not small cheap gifts either, I expect each item would have cost 50 pounds up ... and that was around 15 years ago.

Meant to add that mathanxiety might have identified a particular aspect concerning finances and whether your children see you as being left out of the loop, however, unless you confirm such a supposition we are again "in the dark" about whether there is any value in this suggestion.

Perhaps if you consulted the children, they would rather cut down on the food and clothes for a while and have laptops instead. These modern techo toys are such a joy for children to play with, try to let them have them within reason. You can easily feed a family for £10 pppw, so if you are spending more, why not have a thrifty month and treat the children to what they want.

Cut down on food and clothes so the children can have laptops? You are insane.

If the house is so hot why didn't you sack off the slippers as well? The frippery!

I have to say LadyS - noone said you were not a 'proper Muslim' as far as I can see, although I may have missed something. The point is you posted asking if you were unreasonable not to buy your children expensive gifts for Christmas omitting the fact that it is Eid you celebrate in a big way. In that way you aren't unreasonable but you should have made it clearer as people have become very confused. There really is no need to get upset over mumsnet for goodness sakes!

Why start a post on mumsnet if you are going to get upset about it.

No child should be grateful about their school thats your choice not theirs.

I agree; people have posted based on the information given, assumptions were (rightly or wrongly) made, nothing has been corrected or commented on by the OP.

We still don't know what the circumstances were, yet now someone who has posted in AIBU is accusing us of criticising her parenting and the way she practises her religion (not true).

Bizarre from start to finish.

Kids are so spoilt nowadays. Gadgets fgs! Christmas presents don't have to be expensive to be apprechiated. It's worse when they are at school imo.

YANBU. You are making decisions about your kids based on your knowledge of them. It's so simplistic to imply unfairness between kids because some are in private education and one in state.

I went to a state primary school while my brother went to a prep school. I'd have hated to go to his place and loved and thrived at my primary. He adored his school.

I never felt hard done by and feel blessed my parents had the confidence and understanding of me to not follow the 'what you do for one you must do for the other' way.

They are not deprived - they're lucky. They seem to have parents who are strong and confident enough to do things their own way. Kids need a bit more than stuff to fit in and make friends.

YANBU

I am 30 years old and I have racked my brain trying to remember what I got for Christmas as a child over the years. I really, REALLY can't. No joke, nothing really stands out over an entire childhood of christmases.

If I'd been to a decent private school rather than the shitty one I went to, full of delinquents and useless teachers, and had to give up getting ANYTHING for christmas I would have been happy!

omg I do the two eids am also muslim , why do u even try to do xmas they're lucky that they got half of what they did

seriously I would actually have a nervous breakdown if I had done eid and xmas so we only do eid which ended up like two xmases in a row this year

Why do people always assume that private ed. means superior and privileged???

because the fees for a single child at even a cheap private school would be impossible for quite a lot of people?

and presumably, if you are paying for something you could otherwise get for free, you believe it to be better than the free alternative?

only 9% of kids at private school. perhaps that doesn't make their folks wealthy beyond dreams of avarice, but it makes them a good bit wealthier than average (although, obv, out of pocket once the fees are paid!)

this is a silly thread. many kids will be annoyed at their presents this year. some for better reasons than others. but those that have loving parents will be ok in the long run anyway.