my kids havent had lots of expensive presents

[ladysybil]

coz afaik, we cant afford them. (but my situation with dh and finances is another twenty threads and i dont want to get into it on this one). two of them go to private schools which we pay for, as they recive no bursaries. we live in a lovely big house, and have lots to eat and lots of clothes to wear etc.

they got things like a book. slippers. mask painting kit. etc. one thing each from us, and one thing each from their aunts and ds got us all some stuff from the pound shop as well. lovely presents and lovely christmas imo.

people i know in rl have spent a fortune on their kids for christmas. one lady i know has got her boys an ipad each. they already had laptops. most boys in ds's class have iphones or blackberries, plus all the assorted game things wii etc. ds has neither a phone ( he lost it, twice) nor a laptop (which he actually needs for schoolwork)

are my kids deprived? they think so

Is this their first Christmas celebration? Did you hang stockings and have a special dinner?
You don't have to buy ipads and expensive things, but something nice, that is a surprise, not something bought with them at a craft fair, would be more fun for them.

Your son needs the laptop, and should have a phone, not an expensive one, just one that works, in my opinion, for his own safety, since he travels on public transport.

I have read the OP again and some of the thread. It appears inconsistent - on the one hand the OP can't afford things on the other the OP doesn't get bursaries. I am assuming they have applied and been turned down otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. OTH they have a big house, very heated house and lots of food and clothes. The OP is muslim and Christmas isn't the main celebration but even so the DC don't have mobiles or computers which the OP claims are essential for school work.

I think my overall take on this would be that the DC can hold their heads high amongst their peers. I don't think this means they have to have every piece of technological equipment under the sun (and we don't know their ages I believe). However, teenagers nowadays need a phone - a cheap one until they prove themselves responsible. They also need access to a computer for school work and it may be the case that the DS can use the OP's expensive laptop for this. (Our DS has a lap top, I have a work one, DH has a work one, DD is expected to use the house computer and no way would another lap top be purchased).

Even if money is "tight" as it often is for those paying school fees out of earned income, regardless of the OP's lifestyle, enough to make the DC feel they fit in and to provide a nice if not extravagant Christmas, would represent a miniscule percentage of the overall household budget.

I know some very rich children (eldest rising 13) who are forced to live a very dated life because their mum (in particular) thinks that's enriching - ie, trainsets, lego, 30 mins a day on comp, no phones, bed by 7.30, clothes that make me cringe, etc. The boys don't fit in and go through hell at their fantastic school. We aren't half as rich but let our son be a part of his peer group - at the same school - a couple of A&F T shirts, an Ipod, a phone, a laptop, etc., and I feel much more secure that we are doing the right thing.

BTW - we spent 100 each on ours which I don't think was over the top or too little. Bigger things like wii's, have alway been bought jointly by us and gp's in this house.

Oh god,the presents we got were never iPad equivalents trust me! I may have rose tinted glasses I guess,but I genuinely don't remember discussing pressies,I guess it is a minor point though and I don't want to distract from the discussion.

My dcs are in private school, and yes, there are a number of children who will have received ipads etc.

However they do have friends who don't go to private school: cousins, friends from cubs, swimming club, church etc. One of ds1's best friends is one of 4 children in a house where money is very tight, so tight that his sister's main present was a hand-me-down doll's house that we had passed onto them.

Sure, peer pressure at school is tough, but in terms of raising grounded children, I think that it is important to ensure that they are still in contact with people from a wide range of backgrounds.

I do not remember comparing presents either in my days.

I think your children are not deprived.

I also think that in the long run, your dcs will apreciate having had a roof over their heads and a good education. I think sometimes we have to think about our priorities. Ours is to live in a "nice area" (I do not mean wealthy area) where I know all my neighbours and have no problem letting my children play outside on their own or go to the shop myself when it is late and dark. This choice means that at the moment we have a smaller place than what we would ideally want to have, my dcs share a bedroom, have reasonable presents on birthdays and religious celebration (not Chritmas). I think as they grow oldre the types of presents do change though. DD got a phone for her 11th birthday but that is all she got. I think she was happier with that one present than she would have been with a larger number of small ones. Ds2 would like a phone too but at the moment he is too young and most definitely does not need one so he still gets a toy of some sort.

OP is Muslim? I missed that bit. I have never felt the need to get my Dcs anything for Chrismas. Maybe she is comparing what her dcs got for Eid with what other dcs get for Christmas?

Sorry I should add I did celebrate christmas as a child do not anymore. Sorry if it is a bit confusing in my last post

No, i think I saw that she got them other presents for Eid, Gorionine. These are Christmas presents she is discussing.

I was a poor-at-private-school kid - and I don't remember discussing Christmas or birthday presents either. The only time I had any issues over my less-than-rich status was when I hit 6th form, and our school (in its wisdom ) decided that we didn't need uniform. That really sorted the sheep from the goats! I spent much of my Lower 6th in rowing kit. But by then I also had a Saturday job so was earning money to buy myself some trendy clothes, which made a nice change from rowing kit occasionally.

May I just ask why the boys of the family are in independent schools whilst the girl in a state school?

At 46, I still remember the Christmas I got a duvet (I was about 12) - not even a cover with it so I couldn't use it. Mum later bought a mustard one in the sales. Didn't match my room. Christmas was never fun in our house, and never seemed very celebrated despite dad being a vicar.

I felt deprived, different from the others and hard done by(and still do feel I missed out then). I went to private school and had music lessons, but boy was I made to feel grateful for it - how many sacrifices they made etc. I never felt much warmth for my mother despite all her efforts to "do the right thing".

My kids get some of the stuff they ask for and a few extra things but aren't spoilt. They didn't ask for anyhing that expensive. I was furious with ds for losing his phone but he needs one for safety so he has a basic model.

I'd hate your kids to feel as bitter as I still sometimes do. I'd be really tempted to buy something lovely that they really don't need - doesn't have to cost much. Or a family treat day out - an outdoor ice rink and a flask of hot chocolate?

I think it's a lot of bollocks...all this about "you have given your children friends who are wealthier"

So should we all stick to our own class ridgidly? Never try to better our childrens prosects with an excellent education just in case the little dears can't cope with the fact that Sophie has a pony and Ben has three houses?

Of course we should not. I went to a crap school...twice...we were poor anyway. If my parents had put me in for exams at least I would have had a good educaction!

"Even if money is "tight" as it often is for those paying school fees out of earned income,"

Even with the inverted commas this is the sort of statement that makes my blood boil. Some people just have no idea!

I think this sounds quite sad for them. How old are they? At a private school other children will have a lot of expensive kit. And tbh honest even children from poor homes have good stuff these days. I agree dont buy an expensive phone they will lose. But why not get them a laptop? You can get perfectly good secondhand ones for under £200. Perhaps if you consulted the children, they would rather cut down on the food and clothes for a while and have laptops instead. These modern techo toys are such a joy for children to play with, try to let them have them within reason. You can easily feed a family for £10 pppw, so if you are spending more, why not have a thrifty month and treat the children to what they want.

Quattrocentro - Hi, yes I noticed that too.

I think it probably is best to go all free ed or all private in families. Or at least all a similar proportion of each.

My brother went to a private school from aged 8, my sister from 7-11. Then my sister and I went to the local grammar school from 11-18.

I loved my school, but I think it can create tensions in families, when schooling and expenditure is so unequal.

Because my parents also went to private school I don't feel they completely respected our school and saw it as equal ( to either their's or my brother's )

Basically so important to treat your children equally !

But perhaps, in our family, this was as much a symptom as a cause of inequality, because my brother always seemed to do better with presents too !

You should have said you were Muslims in your OP.It casts the whole thing in a completely different light

I don't think your children are deprived. I do think your son needs to have a cheap (99p in carphone warehouse someone said) mobile if he travels on the train on his own to school. I'm Muslim and we don't celebrate Christmas and I do not know one single practicing Muslim who does but each to their own... As a child I did celebrate it though, never got much cause my mum didn't have it to give, my father was not a good provider... and yes i did complain about being deprived because my friends and cousins got better stuff then me but I was laughed at... Probably rightly so cause even though i truly felt it at the time i wasn't as badly off as people who were really deprived so to have sympathized with me probably would have only made me think i was worse off then i was iykwim. But I was happy even though I came from a "troubled home" but I think that's what's most important not gadgets. Myself and all my friends bought our own first mobiles with our own money when we got our first weekend jobs and it did make us love and appreciate them more but none of us traveled on our own so its a different situation then op's child but not one of us lost our phones so maybe if your ds could "work" around the house maybe do a few little bits to earn it would make him appreciate it and then get him the cheapo one as a back to school present? (posters who are confused about the private school for two not the three kids I think all three went to state primary school, dc1 is now in private secondary, dc2 would have finished out state primary and then gone to private secondary but was not doing well and falling behind in primary so op moved him to a private primary where he is now doing well (i think you said that) and why would she move dc3 out of the school where she is doing well, has all her friends etc just because dc2 needed to be changed? I think the op intends all three to go to private secondary... I hope iv gotten that right op, forgive me if iv explained it wrong just seen loads of posters ask about it)

OP "she gets more spent on her, such as clothes shoes, jewellry etc, because she is a girl and unfortunately the world we live in has consumerism as its god. and it helps little girls fit in etc"

So your dd is taught that she should look beautiful and your sons are taught that their education is valuable. Who the fuck is making these decisions? You or DH? Seems to me that you're entirely sexist.

Read through a bit of the thread and have to say that we did spend quite a bit on the DCs, but only because our stuff we shipped from the states (mid-October) has still not arrived so they don't have the majority of their toys.

I guess it all comes down to how you want your kids to view Christmas. It doesn't have to be feast or famine, could't there be a happy middle ground where they could get two or three of the things they want and a few things they need?

*couldn't sorry

"May I just ask why the boys of the family are in independent schools whilst the girl in a state school?"

Quattro - apparently their daughter is quite bright and getting on well in state school so why move her. Sons needing some "push to be educated" was how I read their situation.

"You can easily feed a family for £10 pppw, so if you are spending more, why not have a thrifty month."

Only their daughter would be seeing the effects of the thrifty month, I suspect, seeing as she is at home to go to state school.

I'd say ditch the phone contract and spend 100 quid on each child next Christmas (assuming 25 quid a month on mobile phone, it can be a simple 'save 25 quid each month" rule and OP just cuts out using her iPhone, or flogs it and uses a 20-30 quid phone instead, good enough for text and voice, just no apps or flash value.

Hmmm, hope we have not scared off ladysybil...

Mathanxiety, I'm a bit about the tone of your post - because the majority of pupils at her DSs private school celebrate something a certain way then ladysybil and her family do likewise? I've seen this tone recounted in several posts - since when did teen-peer behaviour become the arbiter of what families should/shouldn't do?

FWIW just because they are at a private school, it doesn't follow per se that all their peers will be stacked to the rafters in expensive gifts. One of my DSis and I went to a private school another one didn't (long story) and very few of my peers had lots of expensive things. It absolutely wasn't the done thing to compare or disparage anyone and if anything the peers of my DSis at grammar school were more materialistic.

Christmas was never a big deal in our house in terms of presents - we used to get a couple of books each from parents, some tokens or small things from family. We were all fine - we did occassionally moan - because that's what teenagers DO with their families. "I'm so deprived" - "I'm so stressed" - "I hate all of you" - it comes with the age to make those big sweeping statements and most of the time you realise shortly after that you've been a tit.

Likewise for my DNs now - they each got 1 or two things from their parents, 1 from my parents and 1 thing from me and my sis combined. Two were very happy - one had a little whinge (my friends getting a Wii and all I have are these crapppy books type thing) and my sister explained that they don't get big xmas presents but they do get lots of things during the year, meals out, theatre and museum trips and would he like to swap them for the Wii? He agreed that he wouldn't.

We have two main present giving times of year - Christmas for all the DC and their birthdays that is it. So by celebrating Christmas at all in your family they are almost certainly enjoying more gift giving occasions that most DC. If the DC were happy with the presents then I do not understand the issue. Is this deprived thing coming from them or you?

I think most parents have concerns about DC missing out on something expensive holidays/toys/gadget or time with parents/family ect. If it is them perhaps you need to talk to them and find out its source - is it their friends, jealousy with amount visibly spent of DD or something completely different.

My DC are aware they can not have everything they want or desire - that money is finite and we have to make choices though I try never to make them feel guilty for asking or throw the cost of basic needs at them as if it is their fault. I would perhaps be frustrated with a DC who kept losing phones and make them wait to get another but would always provide items needed for school work.

I have to admit that with two DD and one DS I too am shocked that you spend more on your DD to 'fit' in though I have noticed it seems common in families where the first two DC have been boys that for a few years afterward the parents seem to go mad with everything pink and ultra feminine.

"meals out, theatre and museum trips and would he like to swap them for the Wii? He agreed that he wouldn't."

While theatre and museum visits are laudable, I can only imagine your DNs are in a significant minority, when given such a choice.

Or do you think it is that where they study, their peers, if they happen to have XBox PS2/ PS3 or Wii, simply don't brag about them but consider them "the norm" along with trips to the theatre or museums ?

As a teen and younger, I don't recall any trips to the theatre being of interest, not even to see a panto. There were infrequent trips into Brighton to see films but cash was always short (Mum had been widowed, and I was last of 5 children) but never a massive issue.

When I was at the boys grammar school, some lads went off on holidays to USA etc, another lived in a massive house in Brunswick Square, Hove (his room was big enough for full size snooker table, table-tennis table, piano, double bed, sofa and TV and windows big enough to walk through onto the balcony... take a look with Google Street View for an idea how big those houses are!).

Some had loads of cash, some far less, but even so we did compare what presents we had for Christmas, though of course in the early 70s the options were fewer and such costly items as laptops, XBoz, PS3, iPads, iPhones, etc., were far into the future at the time.

I am so totally about why OP has got such a hard time.
A lot of respondents haven't read OP's posts properly at all :(.
"Magic of Christmas" is marketing BS.

I guess problem is, OP, you've opted to celebrate Xmas in a low-key way. Might be better if you skipped Christmas altogether and made a bigger deal of Eid. That would give your DC the out from unpleasant comparisons with their peers ("My mom doesn't celebrate Christmas, but I did get an X for Eid last month.")

Why do people always assume that private ed. means superior and privileged??? I have one at private and 2 in state; the private school is quite possibly totally pants and would be terrible option for the DC still in state school. But private also happens to be best compromise choice for the DC who attends there .

Perhaps, ragged, because while the OP says her son needs a laptop and she had asked about them as far back as early September (though mentioning 600+ may have made a few comments a bit more negative than necessary), it does seem that having an iPhone on contract and considering this and that (in different threads) it then seems like some slight level of buys for self but not for DC...

As have indicated, cancel the mobile contract and divide the saved cash by 3 to at least come closer to 100 quid for each child next year, whether that be for Eid or Christmas...

Not getting the cash in a card / envelope for the day also seems a touch uncaring, as it is far easier than having to go and choose something in a shop, but could have just been an oversight, I suppose.

Have not addressed the school issue, as can see pros (great education possible) and cons (more awkward in small classes to not be under the spotlight, esp if there's a bully or clique and one does not fit in).