to not 'do' santa?

[jmt2211]

I don't believe in Santa and refuse to lie to my child about it. The first year he could ask about it was when he was 3 and I just said that lots of people liked to believe in Santa but really he was just pretend.
I have yet to find a single person who has done the same, even if I can get them to agree in principle, no one will agree in practice. I'd love to hear what others think (other than that I am a Scrooge) and see if anyone agrees with me....

If you don't 'do' Santa then why bother with the charade of the stocking, carrot, whiskey etc...?

Himalaya as I said before, because it's a good, fun, GAME! A story. Little exciting rituals and traditions that simply don't need to be presented to children as the absolute TRUTH, in order for them to enjoy them!

I never got the Bunny thing at Easter! eggs dont' come from Bunny's!

I'm with you GrumpyPants! Well said. I was a reasonably intellingent child but totally believed in Santa and understood it to be pure 'magic' which I wouldn't even have wanted to question. I was 10 years old when my parents told me that it was them. I was gutted that he wasn't real but I loved them for giving me the chance to believe for so long. My 9 year old niece still believes whole-heartedly (i overheard her talking to my son and know she remains completely convinced).

Bending space and time, theory of relativity??!!! Come on, these are little kids. My bright 5 year old wouldn't dream of asking about such things. His 'whole world' isn't very big anyway so Santa travelling around it in a single night wouldn't be such a strange concept. He pops down the chimney (not into their bedrooms - which could scare them), leaves a bit of a mess, spills his milk and leaves cookie crumbs on the table, takes the carrot, leaves the gifts and whooshes back up the chimney in seconds. My children are mesmerised by it all. I wouldn't want to take that away from them anytime soon and I certainly don't consider the maintenance of this wonderful fictional character as a lie.

We don't love our children any less for letting them believe and you're not a better parent for choosing not to - just ask your kids not to spoil it for those who choose to believe, please.

Mum2harryandben exactly what I told my dcs but they would rather believe,

so they wouldn't believe anyone who told them there was no Santa

Cory

I have no problem with people celebrating solstice or midwinter or anything like that. My real beef is with 'advent calendars' that have nothing to do with Christmas and the whole nasty commercial nature of the 'season'. I think the fact that your parents celebrate Yule is fantastic but Christmas is a christian celebration. If you do not believe call it something else.

I lived in a muslim country for a while Christmas was often a working day and those of us who were christian would take a half day. Our friends would wish us happy christmas and might join us after work to do so but they would never celebrate themselves. In the same way we would enjoy the bank holidays for Eid and congratulate our friends but we did not celebrate it.

I don't think it's parents being miserable or mean spirited.

I think it's just being bloody lazy.

It's is much easier to place everything under the tree for days in advance after all and be relaxing at 11pm on Christmas Eve.

That's my theory anyway.

Miserable Buggers.

'I never got the Bunny thing at Easter! eggs dont' come from Bunny's!'

I really don't think that some people are suited to magic-best to leave well alone if you are so literal!

tigitigi, my pov is that any one family has a choice about whether they are nastily commercial or not, but the dividing line imho is not between Christians and secular people.

My agnostic mother gives lots of presents at Christmas because she is a warmhearted generous person who loves giving gifts. She spends very little on her personal comfort during the year; instead she spends the whole year looking out for special Christmas gifts for her large extended family, because it makes her happy to think about them and spot something they would really enjoy or find useful.

It is a joy receiving presents from her, because she enjoys it so much and she is very good at it.

She also gives generously to charity and always has done. Again, it adds to her enjoyment of life.

But because she gives gifts at Christmas it somehow that has to be nastily commercial- whereas if she spent that money on little comforts for herself during the year nobody would ever quibble with it.

I don't get it. I think presents are fun. And I don't think they make you into a shallow person.

If English non-Christians are to be banned from using the word Christmas, isn't it equally shocking and hypocritical that Christians insist on using the name of a pagan deity for Easter?

My mum's all right btw: she says "jul". Not in order to demonstrate any pagan sympathies, but merely because this is the word used in her language by everybody (including the most devout Christians).

JMT,

You consider yourself a serious parent but you clearly know little about how children's brains work.

For most children, an imaginary character is just as real as a real one. It is at adolescence when the synaptic "pruning" process takes place that children start to lose their ability to believe in fantasy. It is the "realness" of the imagination which allows children to learn as quickly as they do compared with adults.

Children want and need fantasies. If you want to bring up a very unimaginative and boring person, don't indulge in any make believe and always tell them the literal truth.

It's not lying, it's storytelling. I think you're taking a bit of childish fun too seriously.

I don't remember actually believing or not believing in FC, it didn't matter anyway. It's possible that many children don't really believe FC is real, but they go along with the pretence because it's fun, they want to believe it and they love a good game, especially if Mummy, Daddy, Grandma, friends etc are playing too. Not to play along is to be a killjoy, that's a real shame for a child.

Cory - you are taking my point in the wrong way. We do presents, I don't think that in and of itself is 'nastily commercial' but I hate the hijacking of a special time of year by advertisers at the like to push things kids don't need and think people who overspend, get into debt etc to celebrate a 'perfect' Christmas are plain crazy.

I have no problem with people 'doing' santa if that is what they want to do. I do have a problem with a waste of resources and money, with secular on non christian people celebrating 'Christmas' but I do not have a problem with people enjoying a midwinter celebration or whatever but I don't think people can have it both ways.

Your mum sounds really lovely.

filling a child's head full of fantasies is setting them up for disappointment! Why not just tell them the truth about life in way they helps them to feel ok about it. I really don't see what is so great about pretending to kids that life is all princess, fairies, santa, heaven ect. Of course they are nice stories that kids like but but they are not real and real is ok. My child is not disappointed now nor will he be in the future, you kids will and not just about santa.

We never explicitly said to our kids that Santa was just pretend, but never said he was real either. Why would we pretend something is true that isn't? Not the way I do things.

Santa is a lovely folk figure, and it's lovely for kids to talk about it as if it were real... like the fairies in the garden, or the fact that they're going to become a princess one day.

Actually going out of your way to convince your kids that it's not you buying the gifts... confusing.

I loathe the way that many mums are quick to assume that anyone engaging in mildly alternative, or simply different parenting practices to themselves are out to undermine them or come across as "superior". I don't believe the OP suggested anything of the sort. Why would you be so defensive unless you were insecure about your own methods in the first place?

"filling a child's head full of fantasies is setting them up for disappointment!"

Disappointment with what? Children are pretty robust when they find out the truth - there couldn't have been a child more in love with and excited about Santa than DS1 but when he decided on the truth for himself, he was absolutely fine. Of course he was, because he had been bought up in a secure and loving environment he had nothing to be disappointed about - and loves the fact DS2 is still believing. Bringing up children is as much about how you shape their attitudes as anything else, not about telling them the stark truth about life so they are never disappointed.

Get that bit right and you can be as creative with everything else as you like.

"filling a child's head full of fantasies is setting them up for disappointment! Why not just tell them the truth about life in way they helps them to feel ok about it"

But it's just a game. And children understand that. You don't have to introduce every idea into their heads for them. They work things out for themselves and make their own mind up about things.

Tyra, again what has that got to do with FC? why bring God into it at all, strange!

You really can't figure it out? Really?

FC doesn't exist but some parents allow their kids to believe he does, same with god. If it's okay to let kids think there is a god why isn't it okay to let kids think there is a FC?

Now, was that really so hard?

You sound a bit over-literal. FC is just part of general role play and fun for us. I didn't feel upset when I found out he wasn't real, but I enjoyed it when I thought he was (and I still do!).

It's up to you but.... Less fun for all without him I'd say.

Children want and need fantasies.

Yes, larrygrylls, but they don't need to be GIVEN ready-made fantasies by adults who WANT them to believe in Santa at all costs. My kids are perfectly capable of coming up with their own fantasies, and using their own imaginations to pretend all they want about Santa, fairies, talking giraffes, whatever. Would that be ok too then, if my DS asked me, "mummy, are talking giraffes real?", and for me to say "Yes, sweetheart, they definitely are!". Because that's exactly what you're all doing with Santa.

To say that children will grow up to be dull boring adults if they are not fed the Santa story lock, stock and barrel is utterly bizarre.

I think the fact that people learn there is no Father Christmas and are not disappointed but actually as an adult remember that time so fondly they want to recreate it for their own precious children proves your point wrong jmt.

Jmt - What ever you decide it is your decision I just hope that your ds is not one of those 'spoilers' who go and ruin it for others especially the little ones that do believe. I have told SIL that cousins will not be welcome in this house if they even whisper 'he does not exist' as of course they are bigger/oldre so know more and want to show off....Like most children.
P.s At 8 I was going to marry a prince and live in a castle. Funny enough I diddn't and I don't feel bad about it either !

OP if that is how you want to be with your tiny ones then that is up to you. But most people won't agree with you and you need to give a lot of thought to making sure you don't upset other families. Otherwise you and your DS will be very unpopular. If I knew that was your view I would not invite your DS to a Christmas party in case he upset the other children. Just a thought. Be careful how you phrase things to him.

Rosa and Acanthus just out of interest, would you also expect my DC not to say "God doesn't exist" to the children of a Christian family, to avoid upsetting them? I am an atheist, though of course I have told/will tell my DC they can make up their own minds about God.