to not 'do' santa?

[jmt2211]

I don't believe in Santa and refuse to lie to my child about it. The first year he could ask about it was when he was 3 and I just said that lots of people liked to believe in Santa but really he was just pretend.
I have yet to find a single person who has done the same, even if I can get them to agree in principle, no one will agree in practice. I'd love to hear what others think (other than that I am a Scrooge) and see if anyone agrees with me....

the second harmless of the first line should say mythical.

I think Santa is a little bit of magic for LO's and you shouldn't take that magic away from children, so yes, YABU.

Haven't read this whole thread, but I think YANBU. My parents never pretended FC was real. They still did my stocking in the night so I woke up to presents, and that was exciting enough!! I loved Christmas and always assumed that FC was one of those things everyone did but no one believed was 'real', like a treasure hunt. I really don't believe it spoiled anything.

I tell my children that I have to send Santa a cheque to pay for all their pressies, that way they can appreciate that it's not all free
Mind you, Ds is 12 now and I did tell him the truth when he was 10 due to questions and going to secondary school.

Himalaya - Didn't know that stockings were an exclusively Santa thing. We always had stockings for the little presents, but no Santa.

I guess I'll see what questions my son comes up with over the next few years. Living in Germany on the border to the Netherlands (both predominantly Christian countries, but no serious affinity with Santa), I guess he'll figure out that if he believes in Saint Nicholas (Dutch tradition), the 'Christ Child' (German tradition) and his parents he'll be swimming in presents.

one last thing to add. truth is important. i believe in honesty in parenting and it's one of my very core values that often get me into trouble in life.

however, i also believe in emotional development and am well aware that too much truth, seeing too much early on, can be detrimental. i saw too much as a kid. i was bright and observant and a bit unsheltered and so saw things. did i understand them though, did i have the emotional maturity or the context of experience to safely frame these truths i saw?

sometimes not. sometimes it made life quite scary and isolating and cut me off from my peers and my family and left me confused and a bit daunted by the weirdness of the world.

what strikes me most about your posts isn't really the santa business but the fact you told your child that adults pretend and lie to their children. i don't know if you contextualised it saying that it was a nice game they play to give their children pleasure and surprise them on christmas day. i hope you did.

to hear young that adults lie to their children, at the level of context, experience and emotional development that a child is at at 3 seems potentially alarming and trust breaking. children need to trust adults to feel safe and see them as good (and they see lying as bad). even when their parents are abusive and horrible children rewrite reality in their own heads to make it their fault and keep their parents as good because it's so essential for them to see parents as good and safe because without that the world would be very dangerous and frightening indeed. it's an immature defense mechanism that most grow out of when they are old enough to survive.

i know this sounds 'dramatic' possibly to you OP but do bear in mind this stuff - it's how children are wired. they like to believe their teachers know everything and parents are good and can be trusted - not because they're naive and it would be better to know the truth but because that's the framework of psychological safety at that age. they need to believe this to not live in a state of fear in a world where they have so little power and are so dependent on people.

telling them children's parents are lying to them rocks that. and 3 is too young for that kind of breakdown of trust.

it's good to be honest but it's also good to know when and how and to acknowledge the realities that a 3 year old actually isn't just a small adult because their brain and memory and emotions aren't prepped yet - that takes time and experience hopefully positive experience.

right. soap box over.

happy christmas

'piscesmoon- I am flattered (and a bit !) that you remembered my magic powers! I believe really strongly in having lots of little magical things in a child's life, and my feeling is that this view must have been held for years with all the myths and traditions that still abound.

I remembered it because it was so lovely! Also my parents, father in particular, had magic powers and I don't think that people appreciate what a good, secure childhood it gives.
I disagree with SantaisanAnagramofSatan, I was 6 when a friend told me the truth and as I didn't believe her I decided to stay awake to find out. I immediately knew why my parents had done it and kept it up for younger siblings. Everyone is different and I was, and still am, grateful. There was no breakdown of trust-I knew they were acting in my best interests! I felt safe and I knew they wouldn't 'really' lie about things. I knew the difference between lying and magic.

I don't think you are a Scrooge, but YADEFBU did your parents tell you Santa wasn't real at 4 or however old your ds is? Let him gave a little bit of magic, there is enough time for him to know the truth.

no you've misread me pisces - i don't think the santa story destroys - was talking about the consequences of too much 'truth' too young when you haven't the emotional maturity to process it.

such as telling a 3yr old all their friends parents lie to them. which could be bemusing to say the least.

now worried everyone will think i was saying the opposite of what i meant.

obviously it was a bit early for me to be coherent

I find this whole Santa thing really really bizarre. People invest such a lot of energy and get so incredibly passionate about it! It's clearly not just a 'bit of fun' at all.

I was brought up without the Santa myth and had wonderful Christmases and a great childhood with plenty of imagination and magical stuff too, but it was my own personal imagination, and my own personal magic, not something manufactured by advertising agencies, my companies or my parents. I've never felt I lost out, nor have I found that my friends wax lyrical with their Santa related memories thus making me feel sad and left out.

I never really considered doing Santa, and would have felt extremely uncomfortable making up some great fantasy (my children are very inquisitive, "it's magic would never have washed with them), not just for a day or two but for years. They are 10 and 11 now and have friends with families who go to great lengths to keep it real (letter writing, food for reindeer, tracking Santa in the evening etc etc) and I can't help but think this is for the parents enjoyment more than for the children, but if that's what Christmas is about for them then fair enough, I'm just not going to follow along because I really don't like many aspects of the Santa myth.

I can't remember when I had the first conversation with my two about Santa, but probably quite early, as it is rammed down their throats rather (TV, nursery, school, random grannies etc). I said something fairly similar to the OP, along the lines of 'it's a story that some families enjoy, but not something that we do' and if they asked about presents of course I wouldn't say that some children get presents from Santa but you don't because that would be really really odd, totally untrue and potentially upsetting.

I've always made it clear to them that just like religious belief it is something that is important to other people and they should respect that, but it's really not for me to police other people's made up fantasies. Or for other people to push them on my children either for that matter. Christmas is a great time of year when many myth systems come together (to me Yule and the nativity are the important ones, although I am neither a pagan nor a Christian) and it can be celebrated in many joyful and imaginative ways.

I'm not going to read the whole thread, but jmt2211 I don't do santa here either with my DS. Never have.

He loves Christmas, the fact that he doesn't believe in Santa doesn't ruin it for him, and he knows and respects that most of his friends believe in it and doesn't want to ruin it for them.

Not all cultures that celebrate Christmas believe in Santa.

Sorry -misunderstood. Probably because it would never cross my mind to tell a 3 yr old thatother parents were lying!!

nooka I completely agree with you and feel exactly the same way. I could have written your post.

I never had Santa when I was young, I grew up in Saudi Arabia so didn't even have Christmas.

I would not tell my child that other parents lie to their childrne, I would tell him that other people believe in Santa, just like other people beliebe in God, and they have every right to.

Oh goodness have just skim read the thread.

I hope no one tihnks I am coming from this from the same viewpoint as the OP. I don't hold her views.

OOOhh my first deletion! In eight years!!
Hav some more Santas!!

well said santaisananagram . Kids need information in an age appropriate way. My friend decided that due to some difficult family circumstances that she would never lie to her DS and he needed to know that life was not all about "happy ever afters" . Cue a child with a head full of age inappropriate information and a cynical fear of trusting anything or anyone.

Tulipgrower - I know people have different traditions about what Father Xmas does - I go for the 'Night Before Christmas' model ('the stockings were hung by the chimney with care in hope that St Nicholas soon would be there...') rather than the Polar Express model (he brings everything).

With the dutch version doesn't he fill the kids shoes with presents?

I know there is no right or wrong with this, but I think limiting Santa to filling of stockings (...or shoes..) makes more 'sense' and involves less lying. Otherwise you end up with a long string of complicated and unconvincing stories about sending cheques to Santa, why Santa can't get you the expensive present you really want, how he knows what you want and whether you've been 'naughty or nice' etc... and then the business of cutting off tags on presents from other people and saying they are from Santa (now that is weird!).

If Santa just fills up stockings it is more like a hokey magic trick on xmas morning, than a god like personality who knows what you want, and how good you've been etc... Also the stocking thing naturally shifts from belief to half-belief to something they enjoy pretending to something they've grown out of...where if Santa brings all the presents at some point you have to admit he doesn't and change the whole story, no?

I'm still watching this thread!

Himalaya, yes thats right, but you can't get much in a shoe or even a wellie. Certainly not in kid pleasing amounts. In practice it just ends up like English Xmas with a sea gifts on the floor. Don't get me started on Swarte Piet!

I asked a while back about the whole behaviour clause thing but noone has yet come up with a justification/ explanation for the famous 'naughtiness = no presents' and how that feels to children and families living in poverty.

Whilst i'm not saying its evil. I'm saying its an ethical minefield!

I never did FC being condtional on behaviour. My DCs had no idea what others got. I don't see that it is a minefield.

Okay - you personally don't do that but its still a 'rule'

"he's making his list, he's checkin' it twice, he's gonna find out who's naughty and nice...."

"wie stout is krijgt lekkers, wie stout is de roe"
(the good kids get sweeties the naughty ones get a spank)

Theres more examples...

Good for you for not abusing the behaviour clause and for raising your kids to not judge these things and be proud or envious. (I'm not being sarcastic there.)