Toxic MIL or am I overreacting? If the former, how to get rid or limit access?

[figcake]

Not a regular but I would really appreciate some good advice. I have been in a bad state for a few days, suffered insomnia all night last night so I am absolutely exhausted and really need to get things straight in my mind.

This is dh's computer and he works from home though is not around atm so I might not be able to post replies as regulary as I would like so please bear with me.

History is that dh and I have been together for around 13 years since I was in my early 20s. MIL always disapproved of me and felt suspicious of why I hooked up with her son because I am not from their (European) country even though I spoke the language reasonably well (having learnt it at school) and had visted there a few times prior to meeting dh. I was younger than dh/ educated to postgrad level/ had already bought my first flat at the time/ not really interested in her obsession with the Christian faith etc. whereas dh was a bit of a dreamer/ living at home with mum/ never earned more than min wage/ not academic etc. So basically very different backgrounds which meant that I was ok with making allowances for their odd attitude towards me.

Dh came to live with me at my home in the UK after we married and things were rocky for a few years (mainly due to his family interfering in every aspect of our lives from a distance and dh being too spineless to stand up to them also due to the fact that I was quite young and this was the first proper relationship either of us had been in) - his aunt even went so far as to ask him what contraception I was using. He left a few times and moved back with his mum found work back home etc but before dc1 was born moved back, found interesting work to do in the UK, showed commitment for the first time ever and we sorted out our differences and went on to have dc2 etc. and felt generally happy and positive.

My mil did occasionally stir things up from a distance via phonecalls to dh but the distance meant that she could not visit v often to do this face to face. She has been trying to persuade dh to bring only the dcs to see her abroad ever since dc1 was 2 weeks old and fully bf but dh basically fudged the issue.

She was invited to visit a few weeks ago and suddenly announced that she was bringing her other son with her who was always v critical of me and whom I would not have invited. He has never even sent the dcs birthday cards or ecards despite being v well-off with few commitments and a bimbo girlfriend whom he showers with useless expensive gifts of the knickers-perfume-chocolates variety all the time. However, in the interests of maintaining harmony and not wishing to deny the dcs the chance to know their uncle I agreed that they could both stay over.

DH and I felt that overall, things went well. I played the polite and interested DIL making teas, engaging in mind-numbing chit chat in their language (despite not wanting to as we practice one-parent-one-language). I talked to dcs in English as that is usual for us, they do not know DHs mother tongue. She understands next to no English.

On the first day they arrived, dh woke up late and needed to rush to meet their flight so we agreed to meet at a certain restaurant in London and I agreed to bring the dcs there at an agreed time, at my own expense. We got soaked in a downpour as our umbrella got jammed (not their fault I know but I did not have the option of returning home obv) and when we got there, we waited ages in our wet clothes but they did not show up so after an hour, we ate I took the dcs home in the dark. DHs mobile had been switched off and I would not have known their numbers as I dont really have much to do with them. I later found out that their flight had been delayed and mil cooly implied that we should have waited even longer. By the time they turned up at our house it was almost bedtime the dcs were pretty hyper after a full-on day and dcs started chucking his mecanno towards mil whist laughing and making his usual aeroplane noises. dh went onto the computer (in the other room as he had to print things for their posh restaurant reservation later that evening) and did not come out for an hour as he was playing soduku (sp?) and is generally unsociable. The discipling was left to me even though DH knows that I do not feel comfortable around them. I explaned to ds2 in English not to do that and showed him the right way to play using the usual positive parenting techniques. I went off to cook dcs supper as it was already too late. I was not in the room with them at the time to give them space to get to know the Dcs (they barely know them) . Obviously, once the time came to serve their dinner, I did try to divert their attention to get them to eat (they are fussy eaters who usually eat at around 4.30 rather than 6 and are def not used to evening visitors).

We traipsed around town with them for four days catering to their every whim and they never implied they were unhappy about anything.

Last week, MIL used DHs work email address (never usually does as we have a family address) to send this to him. He tried to keep it from me but I fell upon it on dc2s birthday. In translation:

Hi

I got back OK but I feel heavy hearted wrt your family situation. I actually needed several days to get my thoughts together to write this.

I know that you personally did everything that you possibly could to make sure that we had a good time.

DS presented himself well and seemed ready to learn a load of things but his mother seemed jealous of our presence and tried to butt in every time he wanted to interact with us - that is definitely the reason why he gets told off a lot at school. He needs to spend more time with other children of his age and you need to set that up as soon as possible. You both need to go out and start meeting other parents more and if Figcake can manage it, she should let him express himself and not anticipate every situation. I think that a short break (DH and DS) to visit FIL at Christmas will do him good

You all need to get out of the house more and meet people. I hope Figcake sees through her idea of taking up an activity - even though it wont be easy for her- in order to see how her current life has cut her off from reality.

She should try not to put on any more weight as it is not good for the heart and increases the risk of other cardiac conditions.

You need to finish all the works on your house as soon as possible and liquidate evrything that is no longer useful to DCs.

As always, we think you personally (i.e DH) are a great parent.

With love to you (i.e only dh). Mum

You can't do that figcake. I'm guessing if your kids are home by 3 they're fairly young - so it's going to be a long time before they leave home, and you will drive yourself mad living like this. He is leeching off you, refusing to contribute, refusing to leave, laying down the law and then calling you lazy.

I think I would be seeking legal advice as to what you can do to get him out.

Figcake, don't stay with him and be miserable, your children will see that a marriage = misery for the woman, that is no relationship model for a child.

My brother is in a desperately unhappy marriage and his kids have no clue what a normal life is like and spend their timemediating between their parents, they have had no real childhood because they have to avoid upsetting their mum all the time.

Your kids and you deserve better than pandering to a selfish lazy person, who contributes nothing at all.

Why should you stay?

You might even meet someone nice who will talk to your kids like they were worthy of love. Right now, their father seems to be sneding them a message that they are irrelevant to him. How dreadful for them to grow up knowing hteir father sits in the house and despises you all.

Treats - I know, it's a mess but only if I choose not to over-think it; that is how I live through it. Since my parents helped me to initially get onto the property ladder I think that they would be really devastated if he was able to make a big financial claim against me if we split up. They are also vehmently anti-divorce and feel that they are increasingly ridden by health problems and would not be able to offer any support re childcare or even emotional. I just wish that I could magic away the unpleasant people that have blighted our relationship from when I was 22 years old. I feel DH, free of his family, is fine, I can overlook his faults (even though he may not be overlooking mine, of course).

I have made full allowances for cultural differences - indeed, it was a culture I grew to love and a language I learnt even before he came onto the scene and I have to say, I certainly don't feel that way about it now.

Please don't model any more unhealthy behaviour for your DC by allowing people to treat you with contempt. And they know - I can remember in primary school one of my friends was completely aware that her parents were only staying together for her sake, and she hated it.

You should never stay in a relationship that it would pain you to see your child in.

figcake - you're prioritising everyone else's needs over your own. This is not about your parents - and if they love you, they will want what's best for you. If you can't put yourself first, at least think about what's best for their children. Miggsie is spot on - he's sending them very damaging messages.

Don't make assumptions about the financial aspects. Go and see a solicitor and get some proper advice about what the effects of a divorce would be on your property.

Stop excusing your husband. The 'unpleasant people that have blighted your relationship' are not responsible for his behaviour - he is.

A house is a house, this is your LIFE. You aren't going to get another one. YOu know your parents best, but I don't think the purpose of your life is to please them and I'm sure they didn't give you the money a decade or more ago, thinking that you would choose to stay with a man you don't love just to preserve a house. YOu don't need their permission to leave, they will be sad and devastated but they are not the ones who have to get up every morning and know they are going it alone. Essentially you are a lone parent inside an unhappy marriage, and you know this. I don't think you just have to put up for another 13 or more years.

I know it is hopeless to try and win anyone round - the odds were stacked against me from the start. I had never been in a 'relationship' when I met him (he was in late 30s), I only had my parents fairness and bustling, happy household model upon which to base my life. I cannot reconcile that girl who once won those tough scholarships and read all those wonderful books and was considered one of the best looking in her year group by her peers, who travelled the world and went to all those great gigs and festivals... with the picture they paint of the more mature 'me' in those exchanges. i am a size 12, hardly at risk of coronary disease as MIL implies, I do have friends (less than pre Dcs but not because there is anything wrong with me, more to do with mummy relationships being more transient and the local population being quite fluid). I am not some isolated, abnormal monster-dictator as she would have her family believe.
Also, that email in the OP was cc-ed to all of her children, not just DH.

I just want to say that all your support has been wonderful - those people who only think badly of AIBU should read this thread .

Figcake - have corrected your letter below (am assuming you meant to call her tu rather than vous, since you have used both?), but I would probably take out the line about DS not needing someone toxic in his life... I am a bit confused by reference to DS as I thought you had more than one child?

J'ai vu le mail que tu as envoyé à DH, et j'ai reflechi longuement sur le contenu.

Je tiens à te signaler que toutes les personnes qui me sont importantes dans la vie considèrent que je suis un excellent parent. Il est vrai que chaque maman agit différemment, mais dans ma culture il est très impoli de critiquer une mère comme tu l'as fait à mon égard, surtout à son mari. Malheureusement, il me semble que ta perception de la situation est surtout le reflet de tes propres délusions - et je pense qu'elle indique un manque de compréhension de ma culture et de ma langue (qui sont également celles de nos enfants) et un jugement erroné de mon caractère. DS n'a pas besoin d'une personne aussi toxique
dans sa vie.

Egalement, ce n'est pas gentil de parler de mon poids et de ma vie sociale comme tu l'as fait, surtout - encore une fois - à mon mari. Si tu veux continuer à me critiquer, je préfèrerais que tu m'écrives directement. Tu apprécieras certainement que tu mets ton fils dans une position très difficile. Je te demande, s'il te plait, d'éviter de l'obliger à faire un choix entre toi et moi.

figcake - you don't need to win anyone round. You're absolutely fine as you are. Your children are very lucky to be able to learn from all the things you've learned and experienced (and to have inherited your looks!).

If your husband and his family don't know their own luck in having you in their lives, then I sincerely hope you will one day find someone that does.

Thats brilliant Weta, amazing. Yes, I have 2 DCs but she completely ignores and disregards the one who does not look Belgian and looks like me

Am happy to help but I do agree with the others that you should probably find out about leaving (or getting him out, rather) and put your own needs first.

Also, for the letter, I actually think there is probably a whole lot more that needs to be said... what you have just said about the other DC, for a start!

Oh dear, figcake, you sound like a wonderful person, indeed you must have been quite a catch for your husband at the time, and they are just trying to shove you into a model of being a wife and mother that is outdated and in which you are subservient and criticised and do everything, it's just not on. And it's not just cultural, I'm in a mixed culture marriage, and I know there's some things that have to be tolerated, but you are being ganged up against (hence the cc to all the family) and they are trying to justify their child's completely unreasonable behaviour. They appear to be trying to take you down a peg or two and undermine your confidence, I can only imagine this is because they know only too well that you are the younger better educated and more employable parent who spends more time with the children, and may well just get up and leave their son, who, in all honesty is sounding less and less of a catch the more you describe.

It would all be different if you said you loved him from the bottom of your heart. Even then, cross-cultural marriages can be difficult. But you said you don't, and you are describing a life that you know in your heart isn't right (him gettting up when the children get in from work and going on the computer, fgs), and getting harrassed from the family to boot. It doesn't sound like this is a 'blip' or a bad patch really. Only you can decide where this takes you.

fig cake please speak to a solicitor, I don't see why someone who contributes to a household so minimally can expect half of its assets. Your parents sound supportive and most parents only want their children to be happy so please don't worry about dissapointing them. My own father would be hearth broken if my husband rang him slagging me off.

I feel so angry reading this post that I am tempted to advise you to change the locks and leave the computer in the garden. You don't deserve this treatment and your children certainly don't need to experience favouritism and witnessing their mother getting treating like dirt. Are you safe there?

Think about what you are going to teach your children by staying. You've seen how much your 'D'H models his behaviour on his family and what he was shown as a child. Think about how this will continue into future generations. If you stick with him and put up with this you're teaching them that it is acceptable for a husband to expect his wife to be subservient, to belittle her, to tell her she is lazy/useles/whatever. You are teaching them that it is acceptable for one partners' family to have a massive influence on a couple, and that one person in a marriage must compromise their happiness to a huge extent.

You mention having one DS, I'm not sure what gender your DC2 is, but, think about this: How will you feel if in 20 years time, you see your DD living your life, letting a man and his family dominate her. How will you feel if her husband feels it is acceptable to call you, or H, and tell you that your daughter is lazy? Alternatively, how will you feel if you see your son treating another woman the way you are treated - passing on the way of treating women he has learnt from your H?

You've said that you don't love him. Get out. You are worth so much more than this - I'm guessing he must be somewhere around 50ish if he was late 30s when you met. You've given him 13 years of your life already - he isn't going to change :(

Thank you - yes, I suppose so. In the early days there was some minor domestic violence on his part but I sought help, he was cautioned and it has not happened for several years since.

My father was cross because we just know that he will never take my side even when he knows MIL is in the wrong. I don't know if I have the strength to get out of it

You will find the strength after you decide to do it, you will, just disengage from the abuse.
You do not have to reply to any kind of abuse other that to say it's unacceptable.

figcake

Your parents will be there for you.

They won´t care more about the money than their daughter and grandchildren.

And I´m sure they would rather you divorce than stay and be treated like shit.

Perhaps after your husband speaking to your father they have more of an idea of what an absolute worthless bully he is.

I am worried about you, can you and the children go and stay with your family for a bit to give you time to gather your thoughts. I'm not having a go at you but is there any such thing as minor domestic violence? If this situation is coming to a head could it happen again?

Your parents won't be disappointed in you.

They might be disappointed that your marriage has failed, as most parents want their childrens' marriages to be happy and last forever, but they won't see it as something you have done wrong. The fact that your mum told you about the phonecall suggests that they think it is wrong - they must realise that you are unhappy, and would probably be horrified at the prospect of you living like this to avoid letting them down.

He was violent as well?

My heart breaks for you a little more every time you post figcake.

My little knowledge of divorce law (worked for a few months as a secretary for a divorce lawyer) tells me that you can claim the marriage has irretrievably broken down as a result of his unreasonable behaviour. You can cite the violence, his lack of financial and practical contribution and his indifference towards his children. I THINK I'm right in saying that if you remain the resident parent and if the house is solely in your name (please say that it is......) there would be hardly any case for him to plead that he should have any share in it. The court would consider that he is perfectly capable of supporting himself through employment and that he didn't make any financial contribution to the purchase of the house.

But please, please, please, go and see a solicitor and get them to tell you exactly what your options are.

Oh figcake your posts make me so desperately sad, I want to come give you a hug! :(

Please don't worry about disappointing your parents by divorcing him, you described your parents home as
"my parents fairness and bustling, happy household model upon which to base my life"

They aren't like your DH, it sounds like they will want you to be happy - I'm guessing you've not told them all you've told us.

You aren't happy.
Your children aren't happy.

Shit sweetheart, prioritise yourself for once! I don't know how much help I could be, but if you are anywhere near me and need anything I will do anything I can to help!

It's not often I say this, but I think you should divorce him ASAP. Pack his bags and tell him to fuck off before you get any more ground down.

Life is for living. You sound like a prisoner.

The more of your story you've told, fig, the more clear it becomes that your (d)h isn't really contributing much to your family at all. If I've got this straight, you handle

• Food
• Cleaning
• Money
• Mortgage
• Childcare

which is, er, pretty much everything as far as I can make out. And he handles what? Sleeping all day, ignoring your DCs, shoving you around, insulting you and bitching to his nasty mother about you. And the only way he can keep a hold over you, and hence maintain this very convenient setup, is by making you feel like shit.

As a few other posters have said, kids aren't stupid. If you're only together so your DCs can have two parents you aren't - IMO, and in my personal experience - doing them any favours. My mother stayed in a loveless marriage to my (kind and generous in some ways, but deeply damaged) alcoholic father for the duration of my childhood. What fucked me up most when she finally left was that now that we'd all belatedly admitted the setup was a lie I had to figure out from scratch, as an adult, what normal, healthy relationships were like. It's taken me a decade and a small fortune in therapy to get to the point where I can even consider committing to a long-term relationship myself. Please don't do that to them.

Figcake, please seek help to get out of this marriage, it is giving you nothing at all, and your kids have a father who is little more than a parasite on you.

I bet your mum and dad would support you and be round like a shot to help. It is misery making for a caring parent to see their child in an unhappy marriage, I know my dad would happily have my brother and kids to live with him, to get my brother out of a situation where he is miserable.

Would you like to see your child(ren) suffering the unhappiness you have right now?

Get help from your family, they will be there for you, you are not there to service some mad woman's selfish son, you are a person in your own right, and your kids will be upset at first, but ultimately be far happier with a happy mum and no intrusion by a mad MIL who is so biased towards her son and one particular child that she will make the whole family miserable at every opportunity.