Extremists BUrning Poppies

[Lucy88]

AIBU to think that the extremists that burnt poppies in London last week should be hung, drawn and quartered?

No but you suggested in that post that muslims should stand up and be counted. I say not - those who support the fatwah should stand up and be counted - them only. And they did - whether you agree with their argument or not.

daft - I have an asian parent. What really pisses me off although she was born british and continues to be british she is expected these days to sort of 'account' for her britishness ie who does she support for the cricket (she hates cricket)and people imagine smells of curry from her home (she has curry about 6 times per year) yet my dh who is from another european country is positively encouraged to demonstrate his nationality and encouraged to support his national football team ie to not be british. Possibly because he's european and she's not (ethnically). Not right.

We are not muslims but seeing what I've seen (I had a cousin who's a posh public boarding school boy who played for his county who's been pulled over in his car so many times by the police because he's a lazy bugger who can't be bothered to shave if he's on a one month rave bender) you'd have less of a blinkered view.

Yes, it does annoy me.

Your post basically tells me that that UK muslims should say things against the rushdie fatwah (and yes I read the first 10 pages of his book and abandoned as was BORING). No they shouldn't stand up and be counted if they don't have a view.

Please don't lump people together and make them accountable for actions instigated in other countries.

I've repeatedly said - "not all Muslims" - this thread is about the extremists who burn poppies etc.
The take on it seems to be ( on MN anyway)
"ignore them there's only about 30 of them"
It doesn't matter how many of them there are - one person burning poppies would offend me. And more importantly, if something isn't done about this blatant treason it will get worse. Next year 200 of them will be doing it - and before we know it 5000. Why is that not a possibility?
what would happen if 500 people walked along with banners saying " behead anyone who burns poppies " - " poppy burners you will pay" ... Would that be allowed? deemed acceptable?

if not -
why not?

What you don't seem to get is that offending you is not a crime.

And you don't get the meaning of the word "treason".

And you don't get the difference between destroying paper flowers and death threats to actual living people.

CoteDAzur
offending anyone is not a crime but some people call for the offendes to be killed.Film makers,writers,cartoonists etc

That is of course a crime.

What is your point?

The people who burned the poppies on remembrance day have to understand that it is my right to loathe them for it.

I cant help feeling that if you live in a country you should be prepared to fight for it. I don't really see the poppy burners as consciencous objectors, just rabble rousers.

If you ignore them then they will stop, something like burning poppies is done for the spectacle, if everyone turns the other way then they just look like a bunch of sad wankers doing stuff that doesn't matter. Guess how long they'd keep that up for? Whereas if you get all upset then you are, pardon the expression, fanning the flames. You are encouraging them.

The best way I can see to look at it, the poppy is a bit of paper and plastic, it means nothing unless you give it meaning. The poppies they are burning mean something to them - it's not what it means to you or me though. They can't burn what it means to us.

It's not acceptable in any way that they are trying to offend, but unfortunately the best way to deal with them is to ignore them like the idiots they are. React to them and you are giving them the attention they crave.

"The people who burned the poppies on remembrance day have to understand that it is my right to loathe them for it. "

I agree, however, they don't want you to like them. They want to make you angry. Do you want them to have that satisfaction?

I'm not prepared to ignore hate crimes, whoever they are directed at.

Um, I'm afraid that at least 95% of the population are willing said poppy burners to simply 'go home.'

It is slightly annoying, even to an urbane Brit, to see people so intent on violating our most sacrosanct traditions, whilst thriving on the fat of the land.

I would like to see the reaction if a game troup of ex-pats pissed on the walls of a mosque.

I suspect they would be stoned.

Literally.

Burning paper flowers is not a "hate crime"

It makes me laugh to see all those who are either choosing to see this unacceptable behaviour as something to 'get over' or turn a blind eye to. These extremists have made a mockery of all those who have died for our freedom and THEIR freedom. If you tried to go to a Muslim country and express your views, if they were against the norm, do you really think you'd be afforded the same liberty?? Those who don't agree with wars have a right to voice their opinions in a CIVILISED manner but these extremists seem to think they can behave like the crazed animals that inhabit their land of origin who like to burn effigies and chop off limbs if something they don't like occurs. It would be just as disrespectful to feed those 29 bacon sandwiches as them burn our poppies but the bleeding heart liberals that probably wouldn't mind Sharia Law in Britain and have forgive/forgotten 9/11 and 7/7 would be up in arms!!!

CoteDAzur
No point really.
Drawing a cartoon of Mohamed is not a hate crime either

I agree they should go home, or at least somewhere that doesn't seem to offend them so much (seeing as I suspect a lot of them are actually british and too thick to realise how much they owe to this country)

They are childish and stupid, and don't deserve any attention. Treat them like the immature senseless fools they are.

Nice one, Shell!

An impassioned post, nicely delivered. Like I say, 95% of the population agree, so don't get detracted by the fringe.

And it makes me want to stick pins in my eyes when yet another ignorant Western European makes sweeping generalizations about what she thinks goes on in all Muslim countries.

I grew up in one and wad very vocal about being an atheist from an early age. That I have lived to tell the take should at the very least make you doubt your prejudices about expressing one's views in "a Muslim country".

Besides, assuming all Muslims are fundamentalist idiots and all Muslim countries are repressive hellholes like you seem to believe, why on earth are you looking at what they would have done when judging what the UK should do? Are they your role models now?

But that's your problem, Cote, and it always has been.

We know that you're not a fundamentalist, but you fail to understand the westerner's point of view.

We ain't that dumb. We know that the vast majority of Muslims are respectful people, even if we secretly think that such an adherance to religion is odd. I think my Vicar is odd too, but I like her very much.

The perception is that incoming Muslims milk the system and play the game.

Convince me that I'm wrong.

Why are you so defensive of the poppy burners cote??

"Those who don't agree with wars have a right to voice their opinions in a CIVILISED manner but these extremists seem to think they can behave like the crazed animals that inhabit their land of origin who like to burn effigies and chop off limbs if something they don't like occurs."

Few things;

• civilized manner. If your child was playing up in order to get attention, would you yell at them or ignore them? Which works better?

• behaving like the animals from their land of origin? I suspect a lot of them are brits and just thick as shit.

• chop off limbs? See, that is illegal and would get them locked up. They haven't done it. They've burnt a bit of paper. Yes it is symbolic, but when remembrance day is over how many of those poppies go in the bin? The one you (and I) wear with pride is not the one they destroy, and they can't destroy what it means to us.

Basically, if you think it is stupid to be offended by cartoons, then you have to accept that it is also stupid to burn symbolic items.

If you think both are morally (criminally even) outrageous, then do continue to feel outraged. Because you'll just keep going round in circles with these lunatics. Depends whether you want to be part of the group that decides not to stoop to the other groups level.

My Dad is from a Muslim country so actually i do know what goes on Thank YOU CoteDAzur. Talk about pre judging and assuming ignorant things. I'd go and stick those pins in your eyes my dear.

What's with the "paper flowers" jibe??? That itself is horrifically insulting to those of us whose friends and relatives died during combat or in peace time.

This is how we remember them and respect their memory.

Excuse me? I don't have a problem and I am not Muslim.

I understand perfectly the Westerner's point of view.

What I have a problem with is some Westerners' prejudices.

Like "You'd be stoned if you peed on a mosque wall in a Muslim country" or "Would you be free to express an opinion against the norm in a Muslim country".

Why do you feel that those who disagree with you are being "defensive", Alouiseg?

Sorry AlouiseG, was that aimed at me? They are flowers.. made of paper. To us they mean something, to the people burning them they are just flammable material.

If it makes any difference I've been wearing my poppy with pride. I know what it means.