Extremists BUrning Poppies

[Lucy88]

AIBU to think that the extremists that burnt poppies in London last week should be hung, drawn and quartered?

THe Beeb link shows them laying a wreath back in July.

I think if any extremist is shouting things like "we hate the west - the English" - (whatever) - then they shouldn't get any of our generous handouts. They don't hate us when they're cashing their benefit cheques do they.

i must be dense because i don't really see how

'if they wish for our soldiers to 'burn in hell' that they do not a)respect our country/its laws or b)that they have sympathies with terrorist organisations'

is the same as

'take up arms against the army'

can you explain this further? because right now it appears that you are saying that disrespect is the same as armed insurrection. i am sure i have the wrong end of the stick, because that would be bonkers

Riven, my point is people should not be news worthy for being a normal human, a normal human would be laying a wreath. A normal human would not talk about people in such a despicable way as to say "all Muslims go home" or some crud!

As for the EDL actual as far as i know they are a pro British, not anti any other culture movement, unfortunately football hooligan type people join and then they are labeled as racist.

"so how is burning a poppy taking up arms against the army"

Good example of a straw man Chibi! Well done!

Can you start on this list of fallacies next? I think you would be very good at it.

No they shouldn't be hung, drawn & quartered.
But they shouldn't get away with it. Don't know what law should be applied but it is very offensive behaviour, maybe give them an asbo. How awful for all the veterans to see such a thing.

Took me a while to work out what was going on as one lady was wearing sandals and the first lady just had a thin jacket on!

a poster said that a group of people burning poppies could be tried for treason

then that same poster said that treason is taking up arms against the army

have you seen a specialist about your inability to follow text? i am a bit worried about you tbh

Chibi: what are you talking about? ...

Do you know what treason is?

Sorry take that back, just been on their website and most of the posters are nuts too!

I think the problem here is that right to freedom of speech is not seen to be respected by all sides.

When poppies are burned, the majority of people are disgusted, but believe that in a free country their right to do so must be maintained.

Yet, if someone says something that is deemed to be anti islamic (the Mohammed newspaper cartoon springs to mind)the person who has said it gets death threats from extremeists. The poppy burners were allowed to continue with their protest but you won't get any newspaper publishing that cartoon. The majority couldn't say whether it was offensive or not because they haven't seen it, despite living in 'free' societies.

The authorities have pandered to extremeism and it is doing no one any favours at all.
Freedom of speech must exist for everyone, equally or our society will become even more divided than it is.

That is not a 'straw man' at all, actually.

She is responding to someone who said treason law could be applied to demonstrators as they are "actively fighting against the state". Chibi is correct to point out that demonstrating or otherwise putting forth an opinion, no matter how distasteful, is not "fighting" in this (literal) sense.

A straw man is when your opponent answers not your argument but a weaker one that you have not said. it refers to a (possibly deliberate) misunderstanding of your argument.

We did this already.

As women and as mothers we should be teaching our children that these people are vile, not because they are Muslim/BNP or what ever but because they are evil, sick twisted people who want to cause hurt, anger, distrust and all things bad in the name of something they clearly do not know the first thing about, a Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Buddist, and so on is a person following a set of beliefs nothing more nothing less, an extremist is someone who has no faith in those beliefs, and who is merely hiding behind a twisted view of them in order to have a "cause".

I hope I am doing a good enough job as a parent to teach my children tolerance of others beliefs, and educating them so as they know the truth, that mad people come in all shapes, sizes, colours and kneel to all manner of Gods, and just because one person or a group of people who claim to be doing something in the name of whatever want to cause harm it does not mean all people are mad.

Exactly. I made the same point on pg.1 - re: Salman Rushdie. (Think it went over a few heads.)

i agree about free speech for all

but a state response to people burning poppies is not the equivalent of a response by extremists to some slight by issuing death threats, and acting in a tit-for-tat way compromises what we are meant to be about as a democracy

which is not to say that death threats are ok - wherever they are issued by people within reach of british law they should be prosecuted appropriately and aggressively

my own opinion is that from a legal perspective any opinion as long as it does not incite others to commit a crime or is a crime in itself is ok to express, even if it is offensive

One of the poppy burners said he hoped that his boss did not recognise him? Why do such a stupid thing in the first place?
Hope he gets a right grilling and a disciplinary when he gets back to work

Also what Karma said, very well put

I have deleted friends for it on fb they normally end up with others saying yeah all P*s go home under it

They seem ibcaperable of realising that this is a tiny tiny group of people and not the majority of Muslims mind same people that posting it most of them I could bet did not respect the 2 minute silience

Oh and another point people posting it are then making it a bigger problem hate causes more hate

and then we end up with cases where young men are beaten up just because they look Asian and understand what racism is and want nothing to do with it

Take a bow ds2 who was beaten up just because he looks Asian and might have been a Muslim as he refused to say that all Muslims should fuck of

Laughable one way ds2 is infact half Italian but yes very dark so xan pass for Indian hertiage ,not first time he was spat at when wads toddler just after 9/11 by grown men

I think the best we can do is not give them any publicity.
They are strange angry little people, whatever their religion, and they should be ignored. It's such a pathetic gesture, I couldn't believe it made the front pages in some newspapers.

I also made a remark the other day about Salman Rushdie..
It was ignored.
We are extremely tolerant in this country of other cultures and religions.
We should be proud and grateful of the Men and Women who fought for the rights we have today.