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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that some parents loose sight of what is acceptable behaviour?

314 replies

caspered · 06/11/2010 17:23

Just been to Pizzahut for what should have been an afternoon treat but spoiled by other parents lack of control of their kids. My two DDs (3 and 6) are not perfect, but we have just been confronted in Pizzahut by one child, about 5 having a total meltdown, which happens I know we have all been there, BUT the parents let this meltdown go in in full volume for 40 minutes!!! I have ignored my child when a tantrum has been in full play, but not in a restaurant where other people (AND PARENTS) are trying to relax or at least eat in some kind of peace. Its not as if there was only one adult, but there was four of them, after 30 minutes the people at the next table just left!! Then to add insult to injury, the next table along with a 'toddler' got out their potty and put it under the table and put their daughter on it in full view of everyone!! I know that potty training can be difficult but Pizzahut have toilets and large ones big enough for someone to sit on a potty in. Quite honestly after this afternoon I can understand why people who have no children sometimes quite frankly look on some parents as some kind of alien species dragged up through the dark ages!! OK feel a bit better now I got that off my chest Smile

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 07/11/2010 18:06

FreudianSlimmery

yes misunderstood apologies :)

Shells · 07/11/2010 18:07

Agree with Sakura. Spot on.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:07

No, people showing some despair/irritation etc at a child kicking off when they are trying to get a little peace/talk to their friend/work etc is NOT the same as being chucked out! It is not unreasonable to find a screaming kid annoying. Even my youngest hates it and resents having to sit through it. My son has behavioural difficulties due to autism, but I don't just shrug my shoulders and expect others to put up with it. I prepare for outings with distractions, I devote a lot of time and energy into working on his behaviour, and if he kicks off (as he did yesterday in a bookshop) we leave, pronto. Having children does not, IMO, give us the right to spoil the enjoyment of the vast majority of people in the vicinity. I remember being a child forty years ago and we were not more privileged or worshipped than children are today.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:08

Of course I do expect people to tolerate, say, wriggly children or laughing ones or children talking a bit loudly if they are in Pizza Express at 6.30pm, but this isnt' what we are talking about, is it?

FreudianSlimmery · 07/11/2010 18:10

Oh, as an aside, somebody mentioned playgrounds - there were loads where I was staying (near Malaga) - far more than in England in terms of density. We found one that was absolutely fantastic, and what struck me was that unlike any park I've seen in England, there was no fence around it but parents were quite happy to let the kids play while they sat enjoying the sun and a drink at the outdoor cafe.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:11

In the starbucks incident DD wasn't screaming. She was excited and was dancing a little jig. That got people tutting no end Hmm

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:12

I completely fail to see why the lack of a fence signals some wonderful child-centred utopia! In most parks fences are there to keep dogs out and children safe.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:14

I think if you left a branch of Starbucks because your child was 'dancing a little jig' then you need to get a bit of a grip, frankly, Sakura! I am v v sceptical that the customers were about to turn into a pitchfork wielding mob because of something like that. You do sound a bit over-sensitive to me.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:16

good god, my son (who is not that tiny!) flails his arms, twirls, flaps and makes odd noises due to his autism. I don't notice any frowns or tutting - even when he accidentally flaps into someone. I always apologise and work hard to avoid his bumping into people, but I find people pretty great, actually.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:18

CCF Well, seeing as you weren't there you can only take my word for it as opposed to telling me to get a grip.

I was made to feel very unwelcome.

Either way, even if DD had been having a full-scale tantrum, I don't see which society can justify making a mother feel unwelcome on that basis.
And as for "get some work done", are you implying that mothers don't work. In reality, it's mothers who are working while other people sip their coffee in peace and read the paper. .

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:30

I wasn't there, no, but I love cafes and have been to zillions of them, including Starbucks with and without children aged from 0 to teenage. I have been in there with my son flailing and expostulating and talking to himself, and have never had a hostile reaction. And if I got a hostile reaction (what, someone tutting?) to behaviour that I judged perfectly OK and not disruptive (eg 'doing a little jig') I would have sat down and had my coffee without a qualm, which is why I suggest you develop a slightly thicker skin. I have had a grumpy reaction when my youngest, aged about three, decided to run around in circles where people were carrying hot drinks, and quite rightly, her behaviour was a hazard as well as bloody annoying, and as soon as I caught her, I made sure it stopped. I have seen parents smile indulgently as their kids tear about, and that does annoy me. I also find it infuriating when parents say stuff like , 'darling, be careful, someone might spill their coffee on you and hurt you' instead of 'sit down or you will make someone hurt themselves with coffee'. I think it is vital to teach children that the world does not revolve around them.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:31

And lol at 'are you implying mothers don't work?'

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:32

And I am afraid that if a child is having a tantrum it is IMO highly unreasonable to expect everyone to smile indulgently. It's a horrible, horrible racket, and even my own kids don't want to sit through it.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:37

I just don't buy this cliche about England being a nation of child-haters at all. We have fantastic children's telly, we have child-friendly restaurants etc all over the place, our museums and art galleries all offer activities and hands on sessions for children, there are brilliant playgrounds, children's swimming pools, playgroups etc I went with my youngest to a vintage fashion fair a couple of years ago. One stallholder objected to her touching the goods, but everyone else was gorgeous to her. She was given multiple freebies (bits of ribbon, a brooch etc) and even a free cake in the cafe. This sort of thing happens really quite often. I also find childless people rather kinder to my son, and more tolerant of his oddities than other mothers, actually.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:39

Then I disagree with you.
It's not about expecting people to 'smile indulgently'. It's about society being set up in a way that is inimical to mothers, basically.
And the way our entire coroporate, capitalist and political system, (shopping, cafes and restaurants included) need mothers to produce children to create customers and consumers and citizens, but there seems to be some sort of disconnect when it comes to treating the people who do this work with respect, especially in public places.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:40

Oh, I'm not talking about England specifically. Every country has got its good and bad points when it comes to children and mothers.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:41

thought of another one - bookshops nearly all have children's areas with books to read and sofas to lounge on and even toys to play with. Not to mention craft activities etc. These did not exist when I was little.

LadyOfTheFlowers · 07/11/2010 18:42

If my children go wild, we leave. I don't expect others to have to listen to mine screaming as I don't wish to listen to theirs.

If any of them need to use a toilet, potty/have nappy changed we move to the toilets - the place intended for toilet related activities.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:43

Your last post, you do realize that children are regarded by corporations as an economic resource, like bauxite and iron.

ColdComfortFarm · 07/11/2010 18:43

I completely disagree Sakura. I do not recognise anything you are saying from my life. You keep saying 'inimical' - in what way? You keep banging on about 'respect' as if you think you are more worthy of it than other people just because you have children. I disagree. Equally, I never felt disrespected for having children. On the contrary plenty of women without children feel very much rejected by a society which gives mothers special status.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:44

All those things are ways in which corporations can somehow make money out of children somewhere along the line. It has nothing whatsoever to do with respecting them or the person who is raising them. It's about money

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:45

NO, I don't think I'm more worthy of it because I have children. What a strange notion. But I think I am at least as worthy as the next person, with or without children.

Scuttlebutter · 07/11/2010 18:46

Sakura, maybe people were tutting because Starbucks sells hot drinks, so actually they were concerned that tiny little flailing arms could very quickly spill hot, scalding liquids over either your child or other people. This is also why my blood runs cold when I see small toddlers running amok in restaurants or anywhere hot drinks/gravy/other hot liquids are being served. It is an accident waiting to happen.

Our society has never been more tolerant of and more welcoming/protective towards children. Nobody is allowed anywhere near a child unless they have been vetted, car parks have special parking areas for parents, childrens food is rigorously checked for nutrition, allergies are carefully considered, nobody can take pictures anywhere near a child. Parks, play areas, museums, galleries and libraries bend over themselves to run family friendly activities, half term sessions, free admission for kids, teaching activities and so on. In many cases, doing so is rightly an important part of their being able to access public funding or Lottery grants. Every major environmental group or charity has a childrens programme. Children have specialist broadcasting channels on the media. A great deal of Govt money is now spent on early years provision and childrens health.

Breast feeding is widely tolerated and mothers in work now have the right to long maternity leave, to request flexible working and have a bombproof excuse to leave work at the drop of a hat to tend sick children and expect first go at the holidays.

Libraries and other public buildings reluctantly lock their toilets not because you have kids, but because the library staff are fed up with the toilets being vandalised or being used for injecting drugs. The lack of good public toilets affects many people not just parents.

And yes Sakura having children is to a certain extent a lifestyle choice. Most of the parents here chose to have the number of children they have. Women have never had better contraception more freely and widely available. Childless people like myself recognise the importance of raising the next generation, and support the judicious use of our taxes to do so, but don't believe that parenting absolves you of all responsibilities to consider your fellow human beings who just want to have a coffee in peace.

I've just come back from a few days away seeing my best friend (also childless). We went out for loads of coffee as I'd travelled over 200 miles to see her and a screaming toddler would not have added to our enjoyment, especially one that was likely to spill drinks all over us. Frankly I think she deserves a coffee in peace since she spent most of the last year nursing her terminally ill mum while her childed siblings watched her (too busy with their own little nuclear families to help). What made things even harder is that she works in an office of working mums - she is the only full time person who's not on some form of flexible working/job share etc. Could she get any extra time off to help her mum? No, of course not. In the meantime, she and all other women of childbearing age are now being looked on with increasing suspicion when we apply for jobs - frankly I often feel like stapling a note to any form - "It's OK, I can't have kids". This part of the village feels a bit cheesed off with being treated as nothing more than an admiring audience for your child, or as the reliable stalwart without any personal life in the office.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:47

No they weren't concerned about my children Scuttlebutter. They were annoyed and irritated that they was even there, hence the tutting.

Sakura · 07/11/2010 18:48

There are too many points in your post that I've already covered scuttlebutter. Needless to say I disagree with most of it.

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