AIBU to think that some parents loose sight of what is acceptable behaviour?

[caspered]

Just been to Pizzahut for what should have been an afternoon treat but spoiled by other parents lack of control of their kids. My two DDs (3 and 6) are not perfect, but we have just been confronted in Pizzahut by one child, about 5 having a total meltdown, which happens I know we have all been there, BUT the parents let this meltdown go in in full volume for 40 minutes!!! I have ignored my child when a tantrum has been in full play, but not in a restaurant where other people (AND PARENTS) are trying to relax or at least eat in some kind of peace. Its not as if there was only one adult, but there was four of them, after 30 minutes the people at the next table just left!! Then to add insult to injury, the next table along with a 'toddler' got out their potty and put it under the table and put their daughter on it in full view of everyone!! I know that potty training can be difficult but Pizzahut have toilets and large ones big enough for someone to sit on a potty in. Quite honestly after this afternoon I can understand why people who have no children sometimes quite frankly look on some parents as some kind of alien species dragged up through the dark ages!! OK feel a bit better now I got that off my chest

Sorry, Northern ROck, you are wrong. In fact, you must have repressed all the memories of your awful, disrespectful treatment at the hands of society/the clientele of Starbucks.

LOL CCF
I do remember a couple of incidents when DCS were little, but they were individual people and in fact I got the support from other people around us.

DD was about 2 and we had been travelling from Dorset to Hertfordshire by train, then bus then a final train. DD got up to get something from the pushchair, the train jumped and dd fell against another passenger, a student type girl of about 20. The girl was really rude to DD and made out she had done it on purpose

I said to her calmly that she was unecessarily rude to DD as it was an accident. She started going on that DD had been whinging since she got on the train.

I pointed out that DD and ds had already had a 2 hour train journey followed by half an hour on bus and had been as good as gold.

I got huge smiles from the other passengers, who definitely thought the girl was out of order. We sang the wheels on the bus for the next 10 minutes to really annoy her

CCF - bang on, that's what I was getting at when people started on about how amazingly easy it is being childless and the usual stereotypes got dragged up.

Now we're obsessed with someone who might have possibly given a dirty look in Starbucks - did they check for age before giving the dirty look? I would have probably looked at a child jumping up and down as well to be honest... know why? To make sure I wasn't going to have my arm jogged and spill a hot cup of coffee on them... I'd have looked to see where I was going, same as I'd have looked to make sure I wasn't going to bang into an OAP, a 30 something mother, a man, a dog/cat/gerbil or anything else. Obviously as a childless woman I'm not allowed to look where I'm going and Sakura would rather I walked straight into her child for fear of causing offence - those lines on my face sweetie, they're not a frown they're wrinkles.

Sakura has a chip on her shoulder and thinks the world is out to get her when in reality the brutal boring truth is the world isn't actually that interested in you and your kid - they're wanting to get to work, get whatever they've got to do in their life done, and get home to the people who matter to them in their life. Once you master that thought - giving less of a shit about what people think of you is a helluva lot easier.

Still no excuse for number 1s or 2s on the floor of Pizza Hut by the way.

I think a bit of confidence never goes amiss in life, whatever you are doing. If you look for offence, you are bound to find it. I tend to think that if I can go around with a boy who leaps, flails, flaps and makes odd noises a fair bit of the time, and never get a negative comment, then it can't be that bad, surely? My girls have always been welcomed and petted everywhere. When my kids were babies and I'd feel a bit down or exhausted or lonely, I'd dress 'em up in something cute and go to the supermarket, as I knew I'd get lots of smiles and conversation based on my sweet little children and it would give me a lift. It worked! Actually, the very best thing about being out with my children is the lovely reactions from other people. Like the couple who fussed and fussed over my littlest when she was spending her pocket money in an antique shop on a china ornament. Or when we found a soft toy in the street and the people in the shop put it away in a special bag with her name on it so if it wasn't claimed in a week, she could have it. All done with lots of ceremony and great kindness. My oldest girl is always praised for her behaviour and given treats, and special consideration, and now she's older, I find I get much better service in shops if she's with me - she's very beautiful and charming! My son has been complimented by old people for his knowledge of obscure facts. I remember when he was tiny and someone on a train saying, 'I love the way you talk to your son. It's so wonderful the way you explain things'. In a seaside pub recently the waitress came over specially to tell us how nice it was to have our family there (she may have said it to every family, but I'm sure her tips reflected her charm). I've met the odd grump too, but you can't take that to heart. I found having a child with me stopped all the 'hello darling show us your tits' hideousness,and for that too, I am hugely grateful.

I must say I am not hypersensitive but have come across the attitudes Sakura remarks on. I don't frequent many coffee shops but there are plenty where I live and I think it refers back to what a poster commented on earlier, yes these places invite you and your child in but the staff and customers are not always pleased to see you! When my DS was a baby I got very fit walking to town because of the general disdain felt towards buggies on the bus and being refused a ride for not folding an umbrella buggy even when there was plenty of room! Of course I've had plenty of good experiences but to assert that there is supreme tolerance for children everywhere is frankly untrue!

Equally, I don't have this experience of the mummy club where motherhood is revered as being the best! It must depend on what job you are doing, where you live, what your life revolves around when you fall pregnant. Age is relevant in some circles. I was 28 when I told people at work I was pregnant, my boss said you don't have to have it if it was an accident in response to the news and a lot of my colleagues who were around my age implied it was career, social life suicide! Couldn't understand why anyone would choose that route until you'd got the house or at least a 2 bed flat, provisions etc! No overwhelming sense of belonging to an exclusive club here, where my social status has rocketed since having a child 3 years ago! However, that isn't what I expected to happen anyway and that isn't why I wanted a child!

Wow, just read the whole thread and got nothiing else done.

Pissing or poohing in a potty in a restaurant is indefensible, SN or not. It is unsanitary, lazy and disgusting in the extreme.

Allowing a 40 minute tantrum is also disgraceful. The sensible, and sensitive thing is to take the child out of the restaurant. You can take the pizza to go if it's that important to you.

I got used to freezing cold food and coffee when ds was young, actually quite like it now You simply cannot expect others to suffer that level of noise for that long. It's rude.

Coldcomfort I agree with every word you have written, thank god for somebody speaking sense.

YANBU but I have mixed feelings about the situation in the OP.

The potty thing is horrible and unnecessary when there were toilets so close.

The child having a tantrum was about 5 you say, not a toddler. YANBU to find this very annoying and unacceptable but non the less it made me feel quite sad. I have a 3yo who is outgrowing the typical toddler tantrums and on occasions when he does have an 'episode' if I do the usual advice of ignore, turn away for a few seconds he very quickly gets bored and stops. I also have a 6yo, he has always been hard work and has some serious issues. He has really bad meltdowns. They can last a long time. Unlike in the OP though I do try to stop them. As time goes on I am learning more of the triggers for these episodes and can avoid the triggers where possible but they are not 'normal' tantrums and not your standard 'I'm going to through a wobbly because you said no to sweets' kind of thing. If I don't line something up 'right' it can start him off. In days gone by I would pick him up and move him quickly to an area where it was quiet and try to calm him where I would not be causing too much disturbance. He is getting too big for me to do that and although I still can just about pick him up I often get injured in the process. (Recent time he brought me to the ground and blood everywhere, not nice!)

I really don't think YABU to not want to be on the receiving end of this and I'm not saying the child from the OP is the same as my ds but similar to your post could quite easily have been written by someone who had witnessed me out with my ds.

Recently I decided that I can't cope with ds in a supermarket setting and avoid this whenever possible. Then I have had issues when out at parks, play areas, swimming baths. I feel bad for the people who are disrupted by his episodes but I see myself becoming a social recluse in order to spare society from this. This weekend dh said maybe we should consider leaving him behind (with someone to mind him) while we take dc 2&3 out. It made me sad to think of having fun whilst 'shutting him away.'

OP I hope you don't feel I'm having a go at you. I already know that people don't like to be disrupted by tantrums (myself included!) and like I said I think YANBU to have found the experience awful, it's just that hearing peoples thoughts on the matter makes me feel more like staying indoors to avoid inflicting my ds on people wanting a bit of quiet

it's just that hearing peoples thoughts on the matter makes me feel more like staying indoors to avoid inflicting my ds on people wanting a bit of quiet - Don't you dare cup!!...I'm positive you take action when your DS has his moments...this is about non-parenting and inconsideration don't put yourself in that category please.

Agree with Mumcentreplus, it's the fact the four adults did nothing to try and calm the situation. If I saw you struggling so obviously cupofcoffee I would feel for you and know how you were feeling. It's horrendous when kids are in full flow and you are on your own with them. No one would think badly of you in that scenario.

This was a different entirely. Please don't stop going out with your ds.

Yes Mumcentreplus I suppose it is bit different and if it was me in PH (not been there in ages so it wasn't on this occasion ) then I hope that OP would have seen me trying and at least not thought I was completely useless. People do look though (of course they do, how can they not when there is such a noise) and I don't blame them for not liking it but some of them do judge and think it is because he is not disciplined (which of course they can tell from a few minute snapshot of the scenario ).

OTOH I have also encountered quite a few people like you perfumedlife who do sympathise and say something that makes me feel a bit better like saying they've been there themselves. Some people also do try to help and distract ds which is also appreciated. I just feel about people giving me funny looks and even worse, saying something negative.

Golden bear, I guess "Equally, I don't have this experience of the mummy club where motherhood is revered as being the best!" was kind of a response to my post.

To clarify, I am not saying that all of a sudden life was a bed of roses and I was feeding cartoon bluebirds from my hand, just that in my normal day to day grind of The bus, Netto, the post office, whatever people seemed a bit friendlier.

I didn't have an actual career when I got pregnant (it was totally an accident!) so I never experienced that fall from being respected in my workplace to being stuck at home.I can see that might have been tough.
Interestingly though all my friends said "you CAN'T have a baby!" Or maybe it was YOU can't have a baby. I forget.
Anyway.
Things have never been that cut and dried for me, luckily (or not-I am not really sure.)

Blimey what have I started! . Just wanted to say cupofcoffee, please do not give up going out with your ds,do not hide away. My frustration was aimed at the four adults who were completely abdicating any responsibility for this screaming child. I think it is always easy to see those parents/adults who are trying and those who quite frankly couldn't give a toss!

No I won't really give up on going out, just feel like it at times when I'm stuck dealing with a mega meltdown in the middle of a stream of passers by.