to want grandad to pay for private primary?

[educationeducationeducation]

I've namechanged for this.

My DS is in primary 4 at a local state school which I moved to get him into because of its good reputation. I only ever expected him to go there for a year or 2 while I was on maternity leave. However, I was made redundant and have been unable to get another job.

We live within walking distance of a 'perfect' private school which has an intake of an extra class in primary 5 (next year).

I know we could wait until he is due to start secondary (same school) when he will be eligible for a bursery but I want him to go next year. If I had ANY spare money I would use it to send him there, but we are currently classed as 'living in poverty' (4 people on £17k).

There are 2 main reasons why I dont want to wait. Firstly, his IQ is higher than the top 1% of the population. He used to be 4 years ahead of his peers but this has shrunk to 2. His current school has very little to offer him academically. He cruises and has become quite arrogant about being smarter then the other children (and teachers). His school has a 'softly, softly' attitude to what I deem bad behaviour. I can see how this is appropriate for other children but he just manipulates and take advantage. He needs a stricter environment.

Secondly, the children he has chosen to be friends with are not the kind of children I want him to associate with. For example his best friend gets coke for breakfast and is dropped off at school by a shell-suited mother with the obligatory fag hanging out of her mouth. From these children my DS has picked up such an unpleasant accent that I am frequently embarassed at hearing him speak. I really dont want him exposed to these influences any longer.

So I think it's reasonable to want my Dad (a millionaire on paper) to not wait until secondary to help pay school fees. He thinks private primary is indulgent and unnecessary and can't seem to fathom that by the time DS is 11 too much damage will have been done. I went from a good state primary to a private secondary and I never felt like I fitted in.
I know Dad can afford it. I'm an only child so it's not like he has other grand DCs other than mine to provide for.

AIBU?

I wish I could sit down and chat with you over a coffee OP, there's so much we could chat about I think. I know you are not near me though as the local private is a little bit shit (unlike the state ones, I am confused how it manages to continue outside of class bigotry tbh).

plenty of ways your son can lwarn humility as time progresses- i'd advocate forced vultary work in a shelter for a start. Despite being raised on the estates I learned more from charity work than I had ever expected.

Have a think whether this spawn of the devil stuff might be picked up on by him. He is 50% his dad and old enough to get that.

I understand you want the best for him but I am not sure that

A) private guarantees gifted

B) Removing him to an environment where real life is screened out is best for a child who might become arrogant

at least for a year anyway

I believe you Sancti. I too have perfect children. And a neat arse. And no ironing pile.

Well I think it's worth pointing out that his brain is a matter of genetic good luck and not something that he has achieved himself. He can't be proud of having a good brain; he can only be proud of what he chooses to achieve with it. Plus of course worth saying that it's no use being clever if you're not a nice person/come across as arrogant, you won't get very far like that.

As regards getting bored at school - I do have some sympathy. I remember when I started primary I was way ahead (due to coaching from teacher granny!) and used to go round and correct others' work distract other children. I wasn't arrogant mind you but I can see it must have been annoying! My teacher then agreed that if I'd finished my work I was allowed to read a book till the others had finished. Worked well - I didn't get further ahead in lessons but did gain lots of general knowledge/vocabulary from the books. Would that work for your DS?

Think suggesting a loan is a MUCH better idea

Ironing pile?
You iron Pag? My clean washing is now known as the kitchen carpet LOL

Both DH and I were ahead of our peers at primary school. He was hothoused by his parents in the way you seem to be doing and struggled later by not being the brightest at university. He had too much of his self image tied up with academic performance and judged people on theirs to an unhealthy extent. It was a steep learning curve and he now regrets his lack of friends and attitude when he was younger. His parents meant well but he didn't have much fun.

My parents encouraged me to do hobbies that I might not be best at, especially amateur dramatics where I might not get a part or athletics where body shape affected performance (high jump... grr for short girls). I have never had a problem making friends whose abilities differed from mine, because that's all it is - different, not better. I might have had the odd argument when something went badly but with hindsight feel my life was better because I don't feel superior to other people nor am I scared of failing.

I'm just suggesting that maybe you shouldn't write off the music lessons, because he isn't musical. The life skills he gets from persevering at things that don't come naturally might be worth more than being able to toot out three blind mice.

Your OP asks if YABU to 'want grandad to pay for private primary'. Personally, I think yes, YABU. I believe it is your responsibility as his parent, not your fathers. I never expected my parents to pay for the choices I make for my children. I look after my father now that he is no longer able to do so himself and I do it because I love him, not because it's expected of me because of what sum he spent on me when I was younger. A loan would be a much better idea, would your father consider lending you the money perhaps?

I dont know of any charities which will take on 8yo volunteers. When he is older I definately want him to do this. (Although I cant see him ever doing a job that involves helping people- he'll probably become a banker!)

Some children are just easier and better behaved than other, regardless of environment. My younger DC is proof of this.

He doesn't actually know enough about genetics to realise that he has half of his genes from his bio father and not my DP, who is the only 'Dad' he's ever had. I'm careful not to tell the truth slag off his bio father. The subject has hardly ever come up tbh.

He quite often get away with things at school because he outsmarts/manipulates other people. He is such a good liar no-one can tell if he's lying or telling the truth. I'd imagine that other smart children wouldn't be so easily manipulated.

Gosh, you don't appear to actually like your son very much do you?

Can't his father help with school fees then education or is that not an option?

"I'd imagine that other smart children wouldn't be so easily manipulated."

Not true I'm afraid. Bright does not equal streetwise/shrewd (especially wrt private school children who are often considerably less "wise" to such behaviour).

edu I DID say when he is older.

AS for well behaved... I quite possibly own MN's worst behaved child (and three well behaved ones so cannot all be me)

ds1 has Aspergers and some associated LD; he has zero empathy, clinically. At six he wqs assessed as having a verbal age of 16-21. He has a high IQ but produces no schoolwork to match and seems to deliberately hide it. He can manipulate ANYONE, TA's the lot, at school he actuakkly manages an army of children that he uses as bodyguards; not that he needs them, he is also violent. He manages this despite having a TA assigned only to him to watch him. He is a Kray, no matter how much I love him; the Psych agrees that it's billionaire or prison for him.

Not to p[aint a picture of all AS kids thus: ds1 clearly has a lot more going on

Trust me, I get it!

If it's really that important to you, why not ask your Dad for a LOAN for the next 3 years fees, and pay him back monthly the £100-£200 that you were prepared to chuck in? Then when you have a job you can pay him back the full amount.

It is your responsibility to pay for the education of your son. Your Father is already being very generous and it is churlish of you to expect or demand more.

"For example his best friend gets coke for breakfast"

Funny enough, I have coke for breakfast too. Off a silver tray. The friend sounds like exactly the kind of person your son should be getting to know if he ever wants to get a 6-figure salary at an investment bank.

I don't understand why, if you had such a high flying career before the recession, you didn't put some of the good money you were most likely earning into some sort of savings fund for future private education costs - if that is what you wanted for your child, then you should have planned your finances with a little more prudence. I fully agree with other posters that have said 'your child, your responsability'.

Your son need not volunteer at a specific charity - you could encourage him to help out elderly neighbours with small chores or even just keeping them company for a while. Or maybe he can do chores around the home. And if you don't think he's the type to be helpful, then maybe that is exactly the trait you should be encouraging in him from now rather than deciding that how he is at 8 is how he'll be forever and there's nothing you can do to change him

As for his lying and manipulation.....smart doesn't mean you have common sense. I've known many kids who aren't particularly academic, but very streetwise and have plenty of common sense. On the other hand, there are plenty of academically minded kids who have no common sense. I'm saying this to point out that other smart kids may still be able to be manipulated and lied to by him. Like another poster said, not dealing with his negative behaviour and assuming that being in a private school will somehow transform his attitude is a pretty dangerous - not to mention expensive - assumption and risk.

Discipline begins in the home. If he misbehaves at school and they don't punish him, then you most definitely should. You should make sure bad behaviour and attitudes are addressed and dealt with now, because if you think it's bad now, just wait until he is taller and stronger than you.

As for bad habits from other kids, my dad always told us to 'leave the attitude and bad manners at the door. When you come into my house you behave as I have taught you to behave'. He can only behave - at 8 years old - as you allow him to and let him get away with.

sorry for the long post

OP you may never ever say out loud your thoughts about your sons father but trust me he will have picked up on them. What rings out from your posts is that on some level you reckon your ds is arrogant (and possibly unpleasant) just like his dad. You think this is all about genetics? Some children are just better behaved? Bollocks quite frankly....You have created two different environments for your two dc because you think of them differently- this will be effecting how your son behaves.
The old arguments of genes vs environment are not even thought about in serious academic of psychological circles. With regards to behviour it's always a combo of both (and slightly more environmental effects for most behaviours). There is a really intersting chap called Rutter who has written an aproachable read on the subject here
I would suggest a little refelction on your own role in your childs behaviour and perhaps that your dads money might be better spent on some famlily therapy

sorry, post took so long to write that minipie already made the point about smart not = streetwise....and in much fewer words

Well, if your father doesn't pay, look for ways to stimulate his mind and keep him learning to his full potential. No need for him to keep within the school curriculum.

OP,
I went to state schools all my life here and abroad and boredom was a fact of life. I had to sit through English lessons with non-native speakers and was used to being ahead (except in maths, where I was crap).

However, good behaviour at school was just something my parents demanded. It didn't matter what the standards of the school were, we had to conform the THEIR standards, so we did. We also had to do academic work at home, either to help catch up in the subjects we were poor at or to develop us further in our best subjects. Both my parents worked long hours, but they gave up evenings to do this.

So ultimately I agree with those posters who say it is about you taking responsibility (especially adsx2). I think your position sounds very hard, and what I'm advocating would be a huge burden, but concentrating, if not fixating, on private education you can't provide will do neither you nor your DS any good. If as you say he continues to deteriorate then you have to do something now.

You have to invest in your child (especially emotionally) rather than wait for your father to make the investment. Sorry if that sounds preachy but I think it's really important.

You might say it's his business how he miss spends his money but it'll be me who'll be looking after him when he's old. Should I say to him then, that his needs are 'none of my business'?

Is looking after him in his old age conditional on whether he coughs up for your son's education then? Surely the fact that he took care of you, his own child, and saw you ok is enough to want to do the same for him as and when he needs it?

For the record, I went to boarding school from the age of 8 until 15. I spent the first few years coming first or second in all my exams which would lead my teachers/parents/self to believe I was fairly intelligent. I came away from 8 years of boarding school with 1 O'Level! (Picked up an extra one doing retakes at a comprehensive 6th form college). Spoke in a "mockney" accent during the early teens at boarding school because some of the day girls I mixed with did. By the time I'd done the last 3 years in comprehensive education I had reverted to speaking "properly". I think this is something kids can grow out of once they are no longer concerned with trying to blend in with their peers to avoid getting stick.

I'm pleased to say that despite my shameful qualifications I am now doing exactly what I always wanted to do when I grew up and this was possibly nurtured by the freedom I had to express myself after liberating myself from private boarding school and going to a comprehensive day school.

"When children are pumped full of rubbish in the morning they turn up at school on a sugar high, which can't make it easy for the teacher to teach. This impacts on my child's education."

Apart from anything else, fresh orange juice is also sky high full of sugar, and plenty of private school children eat Coco Pops and Honey Nut Loops for breakfast. You make so many sweeping generalisations. It's hard to be constructive and sympathetic about a child in an education which may not serve him well when you make yourself so obnoxious about it. Sorry, but you do.

In response to being jealous of you OP

Just take it from me I am not; you are aspiring to what I already have for my DC. Let me tell you a Private education it doesn't somehow assure that your child will be successful or well-behaved or give them good morals - that's your job as a parent.

You sound like you are in a right state actually, I feel very sorry for you.

Education x 3, really not sure why you're so bothered about your ds's schooling when it's abundantly clear from all you've posted that you really don't like him.

yes and that's probably why she's considering boarding 2b2bs!