to want grandad to pay for private primary?

[educationeducationeducation]

I've namechanged for this.

My DS is in primary 4 at a local state school which I moved to get him into because of its good reputation. I only ever expected him to go there for a year or 2 while I was on maternity leave. However, I was made redundant and have been unable to get another job.

We live within walking distance of a 'perfect' private school which has an intake of an extra class in primary 5 (next year).

I know we could wait until he is due to start secondary (same school) when he will be eligible for a bursery but I want him to go next year. If I had ANY spare money I would use it to send him there, but we are currently classed as 'living in poverty' (4 people on £17k).

There are 2 main reasons why I dont want to wait. Firstly, his IQ is higher than the top 1% of the population. He used to be 4 years ahead of his peers but this has shrunk to 2. His current school has very little to offer him academically. He cruises and has become quite arrogant about being smarter then the other children (and teachers). His school has a 'softly, softly' attitude to what I deem bad behaviour. I can see how this is appropriate for other children but he just manipulates and take advantage. He needs a stricter environment.

Secondly, the children he has chosen to be friends with are not the kind of children I want him to associate with. For example his best friend gets coke for breakfast and is dropped off at school by a shell-suited mother with the obligatory fag hanging out of her mouth. From these children my DS has picked up such an unpleasant accent that I am frequently embarassed at hearing him speak. I really dont want him exposed to these influences any longer.

So I think it's reasonable to want my Dad (a millionaire on paper) to not wait until secondary to help pay school fees. He thinks private primary is indulgent and unnecessary and can't seem to fathom that by the time DS is 11 too much damage will have been done. I went from a good state primary to a private secondary and I never felt like I fitted in.
I know Dad can afford it. I'm an only child so it's not like he has other grand DCs other than mine to provide for.

AIBU?

Can I make a sensible suggestion?

Have you tried looking up your local branch of the National association for Gifted Children?

They are still running the 'Explorers' club I used to go to when I were a smart-arse lass. Lots of interesting activities, and the chance to mingle with people even more nerdy than me. Could be a step in the right direction?

Why you aren't earning enough to pay school fees yourself.

I agree with a previous poster who said that you are focussing on private education as the solution to all your problems - it looks as though you have talked yourself into believing that if he was at private school, all of the other issues would be resolved, and you are therefore blaming your father for not wanting to make this happen.
I think it highly unlikely that your son is completely oblivious to your attitude towards the school and if he is picking up on your disatisfaction then he is likely to feel vindicated in misbehaving.

Your father is either going to pay up or not - presumably you don't want to damage your relationship with him by pushing him if he sticks to his guns. Perhaps it would be sensible to try to focus on other ways of dealing with the situation in the event that he does not agree to pay the fees. Can you not do extension work with your son outside school hours? Talk to a teacher about the best way to stretch him? Find other activities or interests for him?

I have to say that I find your attitude quite unpleasant. There is a lot of blame being allocated and your open scorn for people who don't come up to your expectations makes for embarrassing reading. Again, I suspect that your son is all too aware of your feelings.

I went to a pretty ordinary state primary school. I was considered exceptionally bright at that age and my not particularly academic mum worked very hard at keeping me interested and engaged. I went on to private school later and did well academically, but not exceptionally well - very early promise does not always translate into long-term achievement so it may well be that your son will not always be coasting so far ahead of his class. I also had a regional accent. I lost this gradually from the age of 13 when I went to boarding school. Now I have almost no accent. Your son is not being permanently "damaged" by picking up a local twang.

I don't think you are being unreasonable to want your dad to pay the fees - you can't help what you want. However, it is very clear from your OP and subsequent posts (particularly the one about wasting his money down the pub) that it is a bit more than wanting - you clearly think that he should pay the fees. That is unreasonable. It is his money. Maybe he didn't work hard for it - but neither did you. You are no more entitled to it than he is.

I think you need to put the private schooling issue on the backburner and focus on positive ways to deal with the issues you have outlined.

Goodness - if you are real then you are a spoilt brat and your son is heading the same way. Get over yourself and let your child, if you truly have one, get on with being normal.

Sorry, your son is in the top 1%+ of the population and at 8 doesn't understand enough about genetics to know that a lot of his characteristics come from his dad?!

Either a) he's not as bright as you think he is b) is bright but has no curiousity which is not solely the school's fault and is worrying or c) you are severely underestimating how much your ds understands.

posted by eduction

^tanmu82- As I've said we've tried to encourage good behaviour at home eg chores with star charts etc. He doesn't respond.
^

Who is the adult in this situation? FGS he's 8! I don't care how intelligent you or he thinks he is, he's 8 years old and shouldn't have a choice in the matter.
My DC are 7 and 6, when I tell them to pick up their toys/make their beds/take their dirty clothes to the hamper, they'd better well do it! I'm not saying they always do it right away or that they even want to do it in the first place, but they do it because they respect our authority. As I said before, you need to address this lack of respect and arrogant behaviour NOW whilst he is still so young - cause if you think he's got problems now, just you wait....

And tbh if you have a good handle on your child at home then it won't really matter who their friends are because they will have the values and respect that you have instilled in them anyway.
My eldest boys are 22 and 21 now and have a wide and varied range of friends because they did lots of activities in and out of school.The ones that you might class as "distinctly dodgy" aren't a threat to who they are as people or how they behave because they know what I would expect and what they should do.

EEE you should stop get your knickers so bunched up about IQ. Once a person is above a certain level - say 140 - it makes pretty much no difference how much higher they are. Einstein was not that high apparently and he did alright! You'd be better off making sure he has some common sense and kindness to go with his giant intellect. Going on about how special and different he is is likely to turn him into a disaffected, stuck up adult who can't get a girlfriend.

IMO get him into beavers/cubs/scouts and Rugby in a posh catchment area. Then he'll have a range of friend types.

And btw have you heard older kids talking lately - they all morph into talking that bizarre kid patois. Its about their age, not their class. If you think private school will have him talking like Sir William Rees Mogg and dressing like a politician you may find yourself disappointed.

He is not lacking brains so why focus so much on this. Concentrate on values - his area of special needs.

Looking at the later posts, it does seem to me that the OP is perhaps a bit desperate and clutching at straws, because she feels very deeply that there is a problem. True, she didn't do herself any favours with her OP, but that doesn't prove that there isn't a genuine problem with her son's social behaviour. In which case, "fgs you are the parent" may not be the most helpful response. Sometimes being the parent is not enough. I was also the parent (fgs!) last year when my dd went into depression (and I think I am good parent) but we still needed outside help. Just saying fgs it's your responsibility wasn't enough. And it is a normal and natural response to feel frustrated by a difficult child and even at times feel as if you didn't like them much. This does absolutely not mean that you do not love them.

Where the OP imo is mistaken is in thinking that private school would necessarily provide all the answers. If her ds does have social problems (e.g. in appropriate way of relating to adults), then they would follow him wherever he went. In other words, they need to be understood- why is he behaving in a socially inappropriate way? Is there a problem to do with his own development? Does he need any kind of guided support? I have known some seriously bright children in my day and they did not all have these problems. If I were this boy's mum, I would want to know why he does, rather than assume it is a natural concomitant of talent.

I would also be very careful about not subconbsciously encouraging any undesirable traits (such as looking down on other people): if he finds social behaviour difficult, you have to model it like mad and never give way to the same traits in yourself. Show him how much more satisfactory it is to be tolerant and open.

It may well be that stretching him would be a positive thing as it might make him happier and therefore more amenable to discipline- but tbh this could be done in a home/state school context. I have noticed that the OP talks very little about what she does with her ds to stretch him, and perhaps the genetics comment was a little revealing. Ime this is precisely the kind of thing that an 8yo could and would understand about if adults cared to explain it. Certainly not something he would be too young to understand. So more access to more learning (not least through talking to him) and the chance to try new skills might well be a positive thing. And yes, a private school could supply this- but it's not the only possible way of supplying it.

Have you considered moving him to another state primary?

Most schools have provision for "gifted and talented", have you discussed this with the SENCO?

Have you volunteered to help out at the school, joint the PTA/School governers, etc? You could do something really usefull with your free time to help ALL the kids at the school, not just your 'priviledged' DS.

It is your responsibility to teach DS to not be a snob. Have you invited his BF to your home for dinner/party/sleepover? Perhaps you could be a positive influence on this child.

Why don't you home school him?

Is this a troll?

OP Have you actually spoken to your father aboout why you feel this sense of urgency about schools now?

Why don't U sell your house(I think I read that OP spent a lot to get into the catchment area where she is??), rent a home, & use the capital to fund the boy's private ed?

WHAT WOULD YOU plan to do if you didn't have a millionaire dad? Just do that...?

Okay if this isn't a wind-up, the one thing that I agree with the OP on is that paying for an independent education at primary is more important than paying for it at secondary.

My generation grew up believing that secondary education was more important. But the foundations of learning and good study habits are laid at primary level. Give me a child until he is 7 etc

A child at a selective primary - by definition much brighter than the average and also schooled faster and harder - will be around 2 years ahead of their state educated peers. With sound study habits, and hopefully (if the independent primary is worth its fees) a sound foundation in both music and sports. Well-worth it IMO.

I would agree that private primary is a worthwhile investment but it just me or has the OP even asked her father to help ?
We asked granny to pay the deposits for our three to get started in private education and will pay the old bat back because if we don't it will be thrown in our faces, has already tbh or she'll tell everyone that she has put the three grandchildren through private school
Quite honestly i'd be thinking of other ways than asking for hand outs and if you prove to your dad you can sort yourself out and are willing to make sacrifices for the boy then he might be willing to do the same.

"A child at a selective primary - by definition much brighter than the average and also schooled faster and harder - will be around 2 years ahead of their state educated peers."

I imagine that would depend on the peers. If by "a child" you mean "the average child" from "the average family", that is probably true enough. But if a child is very bright and has enough drive of their own to acquire good study habits and drive themselves rather than rely on the school, then I think they can have an excellent chance. I certainly did not find myself at a disadvantage when I arrived at a well thought of English private school as a teen, after being educated at a comprehensive out in the sticks. My study habits were excellent precisely because I had had to acquire them for myself. And my general level of education was pretty good, because being around my parents was an education in itself. So I don't think those of us who cannot afford private fees need to think that we have blown our children's educational chances forever. There are always ways around. One way may seem very attractive, and indeed be a very good one, but that won't make it the only one.

I agree with you Cory, but may I venture to suggest that your good study habits might be the exception rather than the norm?

You may well be right, Quattro, but the point is that no parent should assume that their child is just "the average": one should look at the individual child and the individual circumstances and trying to do what is best for them.

What the OP has is, by the sounds of it, is a very bright child who needs to be stretched. Yes, it would be very nice if she could have the money to send him private, but it seems that she doesn't. So the next question must be, should she give up in despair and just accept that her ds will remain unstimulated and behind his potential. Or should she look at other possible ways of getting to the same place?

Naturally the odds were stacked against my dad (son of a village shop keeper who died when he was 10 and left his mother very badly off) and against my maternal grandfather (one of 11 children whose smallholding father died when they were too young to support themselves, forcing their mother to marry her alcoholic farmhand to save them from the poorhouse). The question is, would it have helped them to have sat down and looked at the statistics and taken their cue from how much of a disadvantage they were at compared to the child of a rich manufacturer in a big city?

I think statistics and averages are important in politics, but they are not something I would let get in the way of expecting the best of my children. Whatever that best may be.

Forgot the essential piece of information re said father and grandfather: they both developed an intense love of learning for its own sake and managed to get a good education through sheer persistence. Yes, not for everyone- but a very good moral for his children and grandchildren.

I think Madame C's post needs repeating here:

"I think for you to post all this you are actually having a really hard time parenting him - you should contact your doctor and get a referral to your local CAMHS team who will; help you with parenting issues (which youobviously have as no ones kid gets that arrogant without help from their parents) and you could go to family therapy (yes even at 8 years old) and your son could learn just how you are supposed to relate to others be they adults or other children".

I know a mother with a similar attitude to her son, and a son who displays arrogant behaviour and doesn't try too hard. He has been excluded from several private schools - the top ones in my experience don't want to be bothered with difficult behaviour and just let the difficult ones go as there will always be someone else to pay for the place who will produce results for the league tables. The average ones - worse than state in my opinion - often some quite poor teaching.

"A child at a selective primary - by definition much brighter than the average"

No, by definition they're richer than average.

god you come across as graspy,greedy and snobby.your op drips with clichés

• shell suit mammies
• common accents
• embarrassed by own child accent

you want ds in a fee paying school you but someone else pays.hmmmm funny that

if your son is as bright as you assert,then enter him for a scholarship

someone else money may buy him a privileged education but it wont sort out your bad attitude or address your snobbish clichés and stereotypes

I think you need to learn to parent better, then your child might not be so terrible at school

No Soupy, when I say "A child at a selective primary - by definition much brighter than the average" that's what I meant. Selective primaries aim to select children with particular IQ ranges, usually around 110+.

Unfortunately, the fact of the primaries being independent does usually mean that they are also richer than the average.

Of course the fact that some private schools select means that they are likely to attract an average of pupils that are brighter than the average of pupils in non-selective schools. Which partly explains why pupils in selective schools are on average ahead of the average in the non-selective system.

What this does not mean is that an individual child in the non-selective system has to be far behind either the average in a selective school or individual children in a selective school. The average in, say, my dd's school isn't going to decide dd's intelligence; it may have a bearing on her performance, but this is not necessarily a straight correlation.