to want grandad to pay for private primary?

[educationeducationeducation]

I've namechanged for this.

My DS is in primary 4 at a local state school which I moved to get him into because of its good reputation. I only ever expected him to go there for a year or 2 while I was on maternity leave. However, I was made redundant and have been unable to get another job.

We live within walking distance of a 'perfect' private school which has an intake of an extra class in primary 5 (next year).

I know we could wait until he is due to start secondary (same school) when he will be eligible for a bursery but I want him to go next year. If I had ANY spare money I would use it to send him there, but we are currently classed as 'living in poverty' (4 people on £17k).

There are 2 main reasons why I dont want to wait. Firstly, his IQ is higher than the top 1% of the population. He used to be 4 years ahead of his peers but this has shrunk to 2. His current school has very little to offer him academically. He cruises and has become quite arrogant about being smarter then the other children (and teachers). His school has a 'softly, softly' attitude to what I deem bad behaviour. I can see how this is appropriate for other children but he just manipulates and take advantage. He needs a stricter environment.

Secondly, the children he has chosen to be friends with are not the kind of children I want him to associate with. For example his best friend gets coke for breakfast and is dropped off at school by a shell-suited mother with the obligatory fag hanging out of her mouth. From these children my DS has picked up such an unpleasant accent that I am frequently embarassed at hearing him speak. I really dont want him exposed to these influences any longer.

So I think it's reasonable to want my Dad (a millionaire on paper) to not wait until secondary to help pay school fees. He thinks private primary is indulgent and unnecessary and can't seem to fathom that by the time DS is 11 too much damage will have been done. I went from a good state primary to a private secondary and I never felt like I fitted in.
I know Dad can afford it. I'm an only child so it's not like he has other grand DCs other than mine to provide for.

AIBU?

Yes, I think he should pay for private education and an annual holiday for you and your family each year.

and a new kitchen and bathroom too.....

waves

I went to a private prep school and was an absolute demon child. I had more chalk thrown at me (it was a proper old fashioned prep school - a teacher even lobbed the whole blackboard duster at me once), and more demerit marks than anyone else in my year, for everything from cheek to teachers to fighting. (I am lovely now of course)

They didn't ever have any luck disciplining me, I think you're misguided if you think private school will cure his behaviour.

I read a fascinating article about how very intelligent children who were over-praised and constantly told how clever they are absolutely fell apart as soon as they encountered something they had to work at, rather than just coast on their natural intelligence, their entire identity was tied up with being clever and they had no idea how to actually apply themselves and work, as soon as they hit something they couldnt do they assumed they couldn't do it and refused to try. I would spend your time trying to instil good working habits and telling him that the cleverest people in the long run are the ones that work the hardest, not looking for a quick fix solution. Otherwise he'll end up faltering at secondry school as he won't be able to coast and will have nothing to fall back on.

I agree that you need to spend more time getting to the bottom of your son's behaviour. I would imagine that private secondary schools will want some kind of report from the primary school and I would also expect the best would be highly subscribed and therefore select the best 'fitting' students. Is it possible your DS might not even get a place if he has a poor report (or ultimately gets expelled) from either a state or private primary school? What if his behaviour then gets him expelled from the private secondary school?

I wonder if talking to your DS's teacher might help. If he's bored at school, then there might be something that can be done. I often did extra reading or was tasked with putting up a display. Could he have a larger project (writing a long story or completing a scrapbook) he could keep working on during times when he's finished?

Again, it'll probably cost some money and definitely cost some time, but I agree with posters who say you need to stretch him too. You've not said what you do with him outside of school. I agree that he needs to do a range of activities, some he's not so natural at so he's the underachiever and sees what it's like to have to work at something. A musical instrument will teach him all sorts of discipline and he might just enjoy it (even if he's not great). What about a martial art or boys brigade / scouts? If your dad is up for funding something, maybe he might help with the cost of an activity?

Oh... and I think you probably need some professional advice on how to improve his behaviour and getting to the bottom of why he's behaving as he is. Again, maybe your dad might help with the cost of this if you can't afford it. It seems like the money you're looking for to pay for a private primary school might be better spent trying to solve the underlying problem rather than plastering a private education over the top.

OP - I clearly have come late to this but I think you sound a little selfish and ungrateful. You are very lucky that your dad has offered to pay fees for secondary.

Perhaps use any spare money you have to give him some extra tutoring in maths and english after school with extra homework that will challenge him in the meantime.

Even if my parents/PIL were multimillionaires (they are not) i would not expect them to pay for my DCs education.

FWIW both me and DH went to state primaries and private secondaries. I agree with your Dad that private primary is indulgent.

YABU.

Have you looked into Kip McGrath (or equivalent) tutoring? Cheaper than private primary and perhaps a good compromise.

The real world consists of people from all social groups and we all have to get along with each other. Teaching children that they are in some way "better" than those who speak differently / have different amounts of money in the household / have coke for breakfast isn't going to help them in the adult world.

cory I stand by my statement about who is the adult in this situation. OP is not discussing depression, she is talking about bad behaviour and attitude. Something that it is a parent's duty to take some responsibility for and to take measures to correct - not blame everyone else and allow an 8 year old to act as they please.

Your private education was a waste of money if you can't even spell "bursary" correctly!
I went to a state primary & a private secondary & I fitted in. Maybe I'm just a more tolerant person.

beanlet-It isn't great, at least not for my DS. And it is the 'socialisation' aspect which is what I'm most concerned about atm.

alice- What type of person do you think I'm trying to mould him into? A reasonably well-behaved, non-arrogant person? Is that such a bad thing?

cory- he does do sport outside school, but it's non-competitive. There aren't many non-school competitive sports available for his age.

piglet- There are no grammar schools here. No scholarships/bursaries before age 11.

millionaires- but your DP is the exception to the rule for people who went to his school though, no? I dont want to gamble with my son's future that he might be the one lucky kid who escapes from a 'bad' school to a 'good' life.

bluefergie- He doesn't have a "lack of relationship with peers"- he is actually one of the more popular children.

sauvignonblanche- DP pays for and can afford all the basic living expenses for all of us. When I go back to work my salary can/will pay for fees for both DCs.

madame- we have talked about therapy, but I'm wary of labelling him a 'troubled' child. As for how he'll be when he grows up, I dont think he'll have the problems you describe. He is quite charming amongst his peers. He is a joker who thinks nothing of challenging authority/the teacher. I think that once he's an adult he wont have as many problems because just now he sees himself as a small adult rather than a child IYKWIM.

the heathen- they dont have any branches remotly neear me unfortunatly.

annec- I know that changing schools isn't some magic wand. But I'm sure it wont worsen the things I'm concerned about.

To a certain extent I feel that I did pay a price in my Dad's pursuit of the £££. My parents prioritised money-making over family life which is completly at odds with my own priorities. I do think that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth that a parent/grandparent would choose to spend money buying other people drinks etc rather than on his own family. If he was using his money for some other purpose I dont think it would rattle me so much.

bedu-The subject of his bio father only comes up every year or 2. The last time he was mentioned DS didn't understand genetics. After all the stuff on this thread I've spent quite a lot of time talking to him about various issues, including the bio father issue. Sadly he does now understand the biology of it, I suppose it was inevitable he'd find out sometime.

tanmu82- well just think yourself lucky that you have such complient, obedient children. Regardless of parenting some children (and adults) are less complient and obedient than others. How exactly do you force a child to do something they dont want to do? TBH, if I'd have known parenting was going to be like this I'd have had 2nd thoughts. FWIW he is already acting like a teenager, arguing back, storming out of the house, slaming doors, stealing money etc.

rudeenglishlady-I disagree about your point re high IQs. There is more of a difference between extremely high IQ people and high IQ people than between high IQ people and the average. Being above a certain level is more of a hindrance/disability. As for getting a girlfriend, he has no trouble on that front . I am trying to get him into other out of school clubs but the timings are awkward to fit around a younger sibling's bedtime. You misinterpret me if you think I want him to ahve some kind of 'posh' accent. His friends he has had since before he started school, who have gone to private primaries are now polite and well spoken. My DS now sticks out amongst these children.

cory- I did used to do extension work with him but this just made him more out of sync. The further ahead he was the more superior he felt (despite my constantly telling him that this is not the most important thing).

salizchap- None of the schools here do 'G&T'. I'm not keen and neither is the school at getting him labelled as 'SEN', I have friends who disagree though. I was the PTA chair and school govenor for 2 years so I've definately done my bit for the whole school. I have invited his friend over, in the hope that maybe on closer inspection this child isn't as bad as I've imagined him to be from my DS's desciption and my sightings of his Mum. But we've never had any response. (I'm sure people will blame me for this too )

ragged- because of my current unemployed status that isn't an option.

quattro- this is exactly what I've seen happen to DS's privatly educated friends.

eurostar- his behaviour may be what I call 'bad' but I can't imagine him ever doing anything to get expelled. IMO if he was in a stricter environment he would tow the line. ATM I get the impression that private schools are struggling to fill their spaces and will take whatever money they can get. The one I want to send him to isn't 'average'.

lucky- I'm not 'constantly telling him he's clever'. And I do the other things you've said.

purplecrazy-His school would give him a goood report, they did before when we thought we'd have the funding and applied.

purpleweds-the 'real world' may consist of different social groups but people tend to stay within their own group. I cant imagine many people have friends across the whole social spectrum.

FWIW in the past my Dad has thought nothing of asking for/taking money from me when he's been hard up...

housewife2010- lucky you! some people fit in some dont. I dont want to risk my DS being one of the ones who dont.

"cory- he does do sport outside school, but it's non-competitive. There aren't many non-school competitive sports available for his age."

I am sure there must be youth football clubs/swimming clubs etc- and it very quickly becomes competitive.

Anyway, competitive is not the essential point: the essential point is that he gets to do something that he finds difficult; it doesn't have to be competitive for him to realise that other children are better than him at something, or simply that he himself has to work hard at something to get better.

Dd does drama and while it is not specifically set up to be competitive, they do have to audition for parts and she can see for herself that some of the older students are of a semi-professional standard. And even if they weren't, she can still compare herself to the professionals she sees on films and realise she has a lot to learn. It doesn't have to be a race for someone to realise they have something to learn.

"cory-I did used to do extension work with him but this just made him more out of sync. The further ahead he was the more superior he felt (despite my constantly telling him that this is not the most important thing)."

I think you totally misunderstand what I meant by extension. I tried to make it clear that I did not mean "a more advanced version of what he gets at school" but "something totally different from what he gets at school".

For examples, when my nephew was shooting ahead in maths, my brother taught him to compose music. Exercises the same part of the brain, but won't make him more bored in maths lessons. Chess is a good one too.

When I shot ahead in English and French, my parents let me have German lessons- a subject I wasn't doing at school. It didn't make me any different at school, because I never told anyone about it, so they never knew. If I had a child in this situation today, I would set them to learn one of the Indian languages.

He could write a novel, or take up sketching or design computer programmes. As long as you don't double up on lessons, and he has the sense to keep his mout shut, learning different things out of school won't make him more out of synch at school, because his friends won't know about it.

filibear- Unlike my DS my other DC has 2 parents, who are going to be willing and able to pay for their education when the time comes.

I don't get this...do you mean your new partner is not prepared to contribute to your DS's education but is for your joint child? Odd.

Re-reading your posts, I get the feeling that you are actually frightened of expanding his mind because this will make him even more arrogant. A number of things strike me here:

*this must be very frustrating for him, like having wings and not being allowed to use them; it will make him angry; your job is to teach him to use his wings to fly in a different direction

*this is not just brightness, it is a behavioural problem- it is not at all how the majority of bright children behave- they usually respond very well to stretching, as this relieves their sense of frustration

*unless you can find a selective school where every single child is brighter than him, the problem is likely to follow him

*if you cannot deal with it merely by being strict, then it is quite possible that private school teachers would not be able to deal with it merely by being strict either- it sounds like he might need more expert intervention

zukie- Read the thread- I was made redundant.

cory- You sound like you are talking sense, I'll try to take some of that on board.

you are responsible for your son's behaviour, not the school.

By which I mean, you need to take it in hand and sort it out.

I made it quite clear to DS that even though he gained a very good academic scholarship to his school, in no way did that moe him superior and if I found him acting like he was, there would be trouble. OTOH, I made it quite clear that it meant he didn't have to feel inferior to any snot nosed children from private primary who looked down on his state education. :o

OP - I get the impression that you are determined to rule out any options other than the one you have decided is the answer. The listing of other posters' responses and ruling them out one by one is a bit telling in this respect.

I am also extremely uncomfortable at the constant negative comments about your son - particularly the comment about having second thoughts about parenting if you had known what it would be like. I haven't seen much in the way of positive comments about your son at all. If you keep focussing on the negatives, I don't realistically see that you are going to be able to come up with any alternatives if your father isn't willing to pay the fees. People have made some really good suggestions in this thread - are you not even going to consider any of them?

BTW - I have namechanged since last posting on this thread - this is annec555 responding again.

zukiecat - Richard Branson went to Stowe School. Private and very expensive; fees there are currently £9,375 per term (boarding) or £6,800 per term (day)

I think you might be confusing his behaviour with his intelligence. Storming out the houses and stealing really are not aproproate behaviours and they are not caused by his intelligence and frustration at school. You have to look elsewhere for this.
Has he had some kind of IQ test? You say he's in top 1% so I assumed so- was this part of an assesment of needs or something? If so did it look at his behaviour at all? If he has not had an assesment then it might be time to ask for one.
I am in the top 1% of the population (a test for dyslexia revealed this) and was really bored at school,it was horribly boring and frustrating. But I didn't steal from parents shout at them or have an arrogant attitude.
You really need to a tad more refelctive about this and work out why he is behaving like this 'cause it isn't just becasue he's bright.

Zukiecat - I absolutely agree with you, Richard Branson just happens to have quite a privileged background. Someone like Alan Sugar is probably a better example.

YABU.

You're Father paid for your education.
From what I can see, he didn't get much for his money.

Having paid for your education, he gave you opportunity above others and what he got in return was a petulent, self gratifying, indulged child.

You are concerned about you're child's accent, the social group associated with your child, behavioural issues etc.

Children learn (predominately if Parents are active); at their Parents' knee.

Holding your hand out in expectation of school fees is dreadful.
It would have more credibility if you asked for a loan (fully scheduled, with interest), asked for an advance on your inheritance (with due regard for other siblings)etc.

But you just expected YOUR FATHER to privately EDUCATE YOUR child.

Have you ever thought that he's approaching the end of his lifespan. Trying to think about his care in terms of nursing requirements/disability/illness etc etc.

No you haven't; because you're a brat.

Oh dear...silly cow.