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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to storm out of family dinner...

250 replies

lecohen · 26/09/2010 23:55

Long story short, my niece bit my daughter in the face, hub and I shout at her to stop and we get an earful for shouting...niece gets no discipline, my child no sympathy.

OP posts:
warthog · 27/09/2010 10:02

catsmother, spot on, as usual.

DinahRod · 27/09/2010 10:02

If a child was about to sink teeth into another child's cheek I'm afraid I too would shout to stop them instantly, or do a sharp 'uh-uh', like you would a puppy, they're not much different at that age. Calm explanation has it's place for sure, but in this case would have been too late by the sound of it.

All our dcs have bitten at some stage, only us though. They used to get a 'uh-uh' and put down on the floor/look away for 30 secs, fortunately very quickly stopped. It's easy to underestimate the bite of a toddler: dh has a scar where ds cuddled up to him and then sank his fangs into his side.

And I, like the OP, would be very frustrated if the parents did nothing and my child was on the receiving end. However, I think Lecohen would have been better to temper her shocked instinctive reaction, with a gentle explanation. How did you react afterwards to your dn, OP? Is it possible you were looking angry and accusingly at a 2yr old or left her feeling frightened? [trying to think why adults were so appalled at you rather than not apologising for dn's biting]

When you're back on speaking terms with family, I think you might have to apologise for shouting, saying it was an instinctive reaction to stop niece biting dd's cheek.

spikeycow · 27/09/2010 10:08

YANBU obviously. I would have done the same thing and agree with Pinkie. If parents want to ignore bad behaviour they can ignore it when it's their own face being bitten, not someone elses childs. How a parent stands there and allows that is beyond me. They are the same types who enable their childs bullying behaviour in later years aswell, and it just isn't parenting.

5DollarShake · 27/09/2010 10:18

YANBU.

My best friend's daughter is 21 months old and going through a biting phase.

My friend is finding going to toddler groups really tough and can't take her eyes off her daughter.p for a second. She is mortified every time it happens and does her best to react to it (discipline where necessary) in an age-appropriate way, without making too much of a big deal. But obviously - it is pretty tough to get through to children of this age and to make them understand that what they've done is wrong.

But bottom line - she always, always apologises to the parent of the the child.

I totally understand the concept of ignoring the toddler's behaviour, but to completely ignore the fact that it happened at all and not to acknowledge it to the parents of the child by way of some sort of apology is just Confused IMVHO.

Francagoestohollywood · 27/09/2010 10:21

Storming out is def OTT.
Fact: toddlers can bite as easily as they whine, tantrum or play nicely.
It is normal toddlers behaviour.

Of course I wouldn't be happy if the parents of a child who has bitten another child don't acknowledge it.

minxofmancunia · 27/09/2010 10:45

YABU for shouting and storming off. I would have been fuming if you'd yelled at one of my children. But would have been totally supportive if you'd spoken calmly and firmly, eg "you musn't bite it's not nice" or "please stop biting now", I've intervened when other people have been going for dd without shouting esp at this age.

As for "2 is a very cognitive age" you deserved the sarcasm I'm afraid, a 2 year old is very affect driven and is not going to be able to describe the difference between thoughts, feelings and behaviour and the situation in which it occurred!

At 2 my dd was a biter, if she did it, I'd remove her from the situation, give loads of attention to the other child then reprimand her firmly, calmly and in private (although obviously I lost it a bit sometimes I'm no way perfect and it used to do my head in). At 4 it's a dim and distant memory.

zipzap · 27/09/2010 11:01

Telling a child to stop doing something they are in the middle of doing - biting , hitting, treading on etc - particularly when another child is getting hurt as a result of that action - is not actually telling the child off, it is merely an instruction.

A raised voice or shout is necessary in order to stop the child in their tracks, particularly if the person who is watching and spots the other child getting hurt is not immediately next to them in order to physically separate them but a few steps away (and therefore a few moments away) from being able to help the child being hurt. This isn't anger, it's just rational because a loud noise will startle a child and therefore hopefully help to interrupt the problem behaviour.

Telling off is when the adult turns on the child doing the naughty thing and starts to tell them that they are being naught/biting etc is wrong, they should never do it again, go sit on the naughty step and so on. THis doesn't need to be done by shouting at the child - that would be when it goes OTT and angry. If the OP had ranted at the child and shouted at this point, that would have been anger and wrong. But it doesn't sound like she did this. And it doesn't sound like the child's parents made any attempt to tell their child that they had done anything wrong - either there immediately or by taking them out of the room to tell them and calm down.

I've read all through this thread and still can't understand what the people who say that the OP was wrong to shout or tell off dn should have done to have actively stopped the dn from biting her dd as the bite was in progress. Confused Should she have just sat and watched or wandered over and tapped dn on the shoulder to say excuse me, can you finish that now please? If they saw somebody hurting their child would they really not try whatever they could to stop the hurting as soon as they could?

I get that different people have different approaches to discipline and they may want to be trying an 'ignore this behaviour' approach for biting. But sure this doesn't mean that they ignore a child who is in pain whilst being bitten?

OrmRenewed · 27/09/2010 11:06

Well it depends. If you shouted and then stormed out before anyone else had a chance to react I think YABU. If my child has been the biter I would have taken her aside and talked to her firmly and quietly about how it wasn't Ok to bit. And perhaps that would have happened after the kerfuffle had died down?

Francagoestohollywood · 27/09/2010 11:12

Zipzap, I'm totally fine with asking a child to stop what they are doing, even with a raised voice.
But storming off and considering a biting toddler such a terrible offence is, imho, ott.

Onetoomanycornettos · 27/09/2010 11:46

Not at all unreasonable to shout out 'stop that' when the biter is still clinging on to the cheek of your child!

However, just as you got all defensive on behalf of your child, your BIL and SIl feel like that about their child being shouted at (perfectly reasonably IMO). So, a 'sorry I shouted so loud, I didn't think anyone had noticed and I just wanted to stop her doing it' is probably the best way forward.

2shoes · 27/09/2010 11:48

blimey so you can't shout stop now.....

BrightLightBrightLight · 27/09/2010 11:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

olderandwider · 27/09/2010 12:02

If someone's child is in the middle of hurting another child it is appropriate to intervene. Not in a judge-y telling off, ooh that's so bad sort of way, but in a practical let's stop the incident quickly manner. So if A is hitting B with a toy, take the toy away from A; if A is biting B, give A a warning shout to stop the behaviour (I would never pull a biting child off another child for fear of making the biter bite even harder!).

Sounds like the OP reacted instintively and proportionately, although perhaps not the storming out of lunch part.

spikeycow · 27/09/2010 12:07

Grin 2shoes. Maybe "come on darling, please stop sweetie, please?" would be better

2shoes · 27/09/2010 12:08

:o
I think I would have stormed ou it I got shouted at, just for trying to stop my child being hurt,

booyhoo · 27/09/2010 12:12

you and your DH shouted at a 2 year old and got offended when someone shouted at you???

YABU

GetOrfMoiLand · 27/09/2010 12:14

I have just read the whole thread and am still lolling 5 minutes later at Custardo's post (about 3 posts in) "leave it its not worf it tracey"

Grin

Sums the whole thread up, really.

OrmRenewed · 27/09/2010 12:18

Yes I liked that too Grin

But I think that 'storming out' of anywhere is by it's nature 'unreasonable'. Reasonable would have been to talk it through calmly and sensibly. Perhaps the thread should have been along the lines of 'can you see why I felt pissed off?'. Then I think we would all have agreed.

Vallhala · 27/09/2010 12:19

YANBU.

Zipzap speaks a lot of sense, good post.

MY stepmother was of the PFB "He's only a baaaaybeee, no-one has the right to tell my son off, I don't agree with raising my voice but prefer 'Ollie darling, that's not nice', my son doesn't have to share his toys, I won't tell him off for hitting his father and neither must his father" mentality when my half-brother was a brattish toddler.

He's now a teenager. By all accounts he's a very screwed up, anger-fuelled boy who is still abusive to his parents and still allowed to get away with it and with a huge sense of his "rights". He didn't grow out of it ecause he wasn't taught.

Not the way ahead for me or mine.

maduggar · 27/09/2010 12:24

YANBU! Id yell at anyone or anything that was harming my child! I find it odd that other parents would not? baffling.

MoralDefective · 27/09/2010 12:27

Yup...'rights' and 'entitlement' but no responsibilityHmmstart teaching them when they are young...biting IS a bad behaviour,no matter what anyone says...i'm not saying she will bite other people for ever but she needs to be taught while she's young that hurting other people is not allowed.

BrightLightBrightLight · 27/09/2010 12:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
lecohen · 27/09/2010 13:04

wow, can't believe at how many responses this thread has received...thank you all for your replies!

I would like to clarify that after my automatic response for my niece to stop, I took it no further but just cuddled my child and checked her cheek.

I was very upset by the way in which I became the subject and MY reaction instead of the immediate problem of my niece BITING REPEATEDLY with little or no consequence.

My family took my reaction completely out of proportion and all IMMEDIATELY turned on me and started shouting at me.

I explained that it was a natural reaction and that I would have reacted the same if it had been one of mine hurting my niece and that I would not tolerate it.

THEY continued to rant at me - again with not addressing the problem to the point that I DID NOT feel that there could be a resolve at the time in light of what I deemed to be irrational and misplaced anger addressed to me.

At that point I felt uncomfortable staying there and decided to remove myself and my children and go home!

Now those that still feel I was a "drama queen" for leaving...please could you explain to me what exactly was unnacceptable about leaving at that point? If I was having a rational conversation, I would have been happy to stay and DISCUSS but it was not the case.

OP posts:
Original poster
lecohen · 27/09/2010 13:09

Oh, and whilst I COMPLETELY respect all your parenting styles, I will NEVER say "PLEASE STOP BITING"...I WILL shout STOP RIGHT NOW and mean it!

Biting is not the same as a child snatching a toy or not sharing sweets!

OP posts:
Original poster
lecohen · 27/09/2010 13:11

For me, there was an opportunity for my Bro and his wife to make a clear message that BITING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE but she is not given that message at all!

She has been biting for many months now (she was 2 in July) and I feel that it has only gone on this long BECAUSE she has NOT been given that clear message!

OP posts: