Wedding gift etiquette

[petal2008]

We have been invited to a friend's fourth (!) wedding.

Along with the invitation was a poem basically saying don't buy a gift as we have got everything we need - we want the money to go on holiday.

Surely it's up to us to ask if there is a wedding list and be told "actually we haven't got one but a voucher or the cash would be nice".

My DH says I'm being too sensitive as would be spending money on a gift anyway so we I won't have to worry about going out to buy anything. I know all this is true but feel a bit pissed off about it.

I've got a special birthday this year but won't invite people to my party saying don't bother about the present but I'll have the money.

I'm getting married next weekend and with our invite we sent out a note saying 'honestly, just having you there on our wedding day is present enough but if you wanted to buy us a gift, this is our John Lewis gift list number.'

We thought this was a reasonable way of doing it; making it clear that there is no obligation but giving the details for those that want to.

We have a toddler and another one on the way and are comfortable but not loaded. Everyone who knows us knows we both work full time and save every penny we can. It's costing us a fair whack to put this wedding on (we're paying for it ourselves, obv) even though we've tried to make it as modest as possible (usual annoying crap about not snubbing family members, can't invite this perosn without that etc; it all drives up the cost). So, I figured, why shouldn't we set up a gift list for stuff we'd really like in our house? Not really for our mates (I don't give a hoot if they decide not to get us a present; it IS the most important thing to have them there), but more for bleeding family members who'd have a shit fit if they weren't invited.

I agree that asking for cash (especially if you are reasonably well off) is crass though. A friend of mine set up a 'fake' list for hers a few years ago, where they had no intention of actually having any of the items on it in their home, but had planned to swap everything for vouchers at a later date. I think this is a bit off as many people (I know I do) often put in alot of thought to what they'll buy off the list and sometimes push the boat out a bit to get that really nice cabinet or rug or whatnot. To then find out the couple have no intention of receiving that gift is a bit annoying! Still, my friend is a character and lovely in lots of other ways so I forgave her.

I do think having a gift list and yes, sending the details out with the invite, is a perfectly acceptable practice. We have loads of stuff for £10 and £20 quid on our list and most weddings do cost couples a hell of a lot of money.

I won't be monitoring who buys and who doesn't either.

love, if you know them all and know they won't mind, it's ok. It's just that often, people demonstrate how little they know or care about their guests (which is a bit off in itself, imo) by including an expensive list that offends them.

Personally, when I get asked for money/expensive gifts, I feel crap because I'd like to get the couple something nice, but evidently their idea of 'nice' is way out of my budget. Great, thanks for making me feel cheap on your 'special day'.

Littlered - it's a perfectly acceptable argument.

The asian weddings I've been to money is expected. If you turned up with a gift it would be odd. I married an Italian in Italy - they also often do the money thing. You don't ask for money at either these types of wedding but people just come up (in the case of the Italian ones) and gift money in an envelope.

So, the Italian and asian weddings I go to here I just cough up money.

What's bad about that argument.

I'll only go to a wedding of someone I love so I'd go along with what they want. If I can't go I still get them something they say they want.

For the weddings of my husband's side lot I just go along with the flow.

My giftlist for the UK wedding was to stop people hassling me about what I wanted. Plus we had been living together so didn't want starter home stuff. So I chose things that were really cheap - for everyone. And my family gave us money - as that's what they do - it's their culture. The Italians also gave us money. Either way the gifts were secondary to the fact that people came and enjoyed our hospitality.

What's the big issue?

My friends are getting married and are absolutely skint. Stayed in a 1* hotel for their holiday wedding. They work their asses off trying to run their own business and pay for their own house. They are old 24 and 25. Their parents have paid for a party for them so we can all celebrate their wedding. Would I rather spend my entire Saturday trying to find them a suitable gift, then a fiver for wrapping paper and ribbon? Or would I just prefer them to pop £20 in a card knowing it will be helping them to struggle a little less over the next few months? No brainer.

giveit, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to claim that because in some cultures giving money is expected, therefore anyone who objects that in their culture it's considered tacky is slandering those cultures. It just doesn't follow.

I agree that I'd always try to fall in with the culture I'm in at the time. But cash poems are no part of the culture to which my relatives belong, and they are known to be offensive in that culture, so I think it comes across as grasping and rude.

Tee, to play Four Yorkshiremen, DH and I are 23 and 25, don't have our own house, didn't have a holiday for our wedding, have debt. Would still rather not ask for money from similarly skint friends, thanks very much.

If someone who's better off than us wants to give us money, that's very kind. But I'm not about to ask my mates who're in the same boat to cough up just because we're lucky enough to be married.

sparechange, I'm with you largely.

But then I am getting married next weekend and we do have a gift list.

As I said in my last post though, it is mainly for the benefit of extended family members, the politics surrounding whom mean that we have to invite double the number of people we'd like to in order to avoid our mums and dads getting pissed off (who, being in their late 60s should just grow up, but there you go). This makes it quite a cashy wedding for our budget and so if I can get some nice stuff to upgrade our Ikea/broken/toddler attacked home stuff then I will offer them the chance to get it for us!

Didn't realise we were just talking 'Brits' here.

Basically I find it rather offensive when someone says it's tacky and greedy. I find it bizzare that sooo many mnetters (given lots of the threads I read) are 'live and let live' and every type of everything is OK and those of you who don't agree don't understanding 'anything about living in a multicultural society', YET, this is not the first money and weddings thread and the vast majority of people say 'ooh - it's awful, it's tacky, it's not on'.

Well THAT doesn't add up to me.

My UK wedding was tiny - all we could afford and my bestest friends live miles away and so I said, come down in your biker leathers, no issues, don't bring anything, just yourself, just be here. That's MY view. Their view was that our best friend is getting married - we'll be there and we'll get something on the gift list. My dh's side mates were - he's getting hitched to a nutter and throwing a small party - lets go and enjoy with them, see them make prats of themselves at their civil ceremony (we did), let's eat the food and drink the drink they've laid on by way of a reception and lets give money as it's our tradition and saves us having to shop.

I like that attitude from all sides.

Italian wedding was different - it was to make mil happy and it reflected their community. Wasn't to my taste but given I'm abroad I'm not about to lug home a load of tacky pressies, so if it's a community wedding (ie an event in a small village that everyone enjoys, and you are invited to their weddings too) and so if they want to come and give money which pointedly goes towards the cost of a COMMUNITY event - well so bloody what. Good on them.

Scottish - I don't ask for anything but my friend who was turning 40 asked for cash towards a kitchen appliance. Fine by me - we all did it - with love as she's a great friend with no money but who needs a kitchen appliance and she bought this thing. I'm happy - she's happy - great stuff.

I grew up with family (both English and from abroad) giving me money for birthdays.

Recently a portuguese friend gave ds money for his birthday present. I wasn't expecting anything as I didn't tell her about ds's bd - but she found out and she wanted to gift him and that's how she wanted to do it.

Issue?

I can see if it's the 4 marriage in about 10 years and they want a huge event that needs paying for - but quite honestly I've never met anyone who gives me the impression they are one the take.

giveit, are we just talking British? Who said that?

From my point of view, it's about being considerate about the society your guests come from.

Oh - btw -I'm great gift giver - I love that too.

So littlereddragon if you went to a wedding who's bride and groom and their families were from non UK backgrounds, it would be fine, but not for enlgish background people?

Where have you got the English/British thing from, giveit? I'm just curious.

If I got an invitation with a list/cash request from someone who clearly thought it was the norm, I'd be fine with that. But what I object to is people who know it will upset some guests, know it is considered rude by some guests, and do it anyway because they want the money or because they just don't care very much. This is exactly how it's been when I've received cash-request poems. The couples in question are my relatives, and when I got married they advised me to ignore people being offended and do it anyway 'because weddings are expensive'.

Now, that is crass. Obviously crass. It is also, quite obviously, crass to ask only for very expensive gifts when you know your guests are poor, and I can't imagine there's any culture or social circle in the world where this is really considered to be ok.

Giveit, of course that would be fine! If that's what's traditional in the non UK background, then the couple getting married wouldn't have to ask!

It's not the giving or recieving of money that is crass, rude, offensive and tacky, it's the asking in the invitation that's the problem!

I think the key point is that what people object to is the twee poem in with the invitation and the expectations that they will be getting a present - thats what i object to. I much prefer to reply to an invitation and ask if there is wedding list/preference?

But why shouldn't people ask for what they want in their wedding invitation, curlymama?

Guests bring presents to a wedding - that's a cultural norm, wherever you're from - and if the bride and groom want to specify the type of presents (whether from a wedding list, or in the form of cash or vouchers) then that's their prerogative. It's not being rude, it's being pragmatic and even considerate so that their guests don't have to rack their brains to think of what to get, or waste their money on buying something that the bride and groom don't want/need/like.

I really don't understand the hostility to wedding lists and requests for money on MN. Some of you give the impression that the very fact of someone asking for something specific for a wedding present is so appalling that they don't deserve even to be your friends. Bit of an over-reaction, methinks.

Ttalloo - saying it how it is. Good on you.

I'm very surprised that posters are talking about people who they consider friends. ou I certainly don't have friends like this.

If you don't like them, don't go to their wedding.

at ariesgirl, how awful for them to want you to intervene on your wedding day!!

That's ruder than anything I can think of.

Just realised I still don't like lists atall, not really. My parents are going to a wedding today, a second wedding but still a big do. The couple don't need a thing, no kids and both work in great jobs. They asked for no gifts, but if people really want to contribute, there is a charity bowl at the hotel for MacMillan nurses, which is caring for Bride's mother. Dad thinks it's a wonderful idea, as why gather money you don't need. They won't know who puts what in to the bowl so no one needs to be embarrased.

But, we would 90% of the time put money in a card for a wedding. That's because we know most folk have a house full of kit, or just different taste from us. But there is no getting away from the rudeness of asking, or even mentioning gifts imo.

And before I get flamed, I really am not saying I am right and others are wrong. Just my opinion.

ttallo You know, it's not a cultural norm everywhere - certainly not for a fourth wedding. In some cultures, even a second wedding isn't celebrated with presents.

Meant to add, if you do away with the gift list, you are more likely to accrue more cash than gifts as people struggle for ideas. So, for those hoping for cash for honeymoon, it probably is best to not mention gifts atall. That way you know people really don't mind and are giving as they really wish.

But why shouldn't people ask for what they want in their wedding invitation, curlymama?

Because in this culture, it's considered rude! Surely you can see that from the amound of replies on this thread alone that lots of people find it offensive. People that are generous, and want to give a wedding gift that will be appreciated, still find it rude. Why is it so hard for people to see that??

On the average guest list of say, 80 people, at a traditional English/British wedding, there is bound to be at least one relative or friend that finds it rude. So why would anyone want to do that to their guests?

The reason that people get offended by requests for money is that they cannot give what they choose. Anything less than £40 - £50 can look a bit tight, but you could get a gorgeous gift for less than that in a sale, that would actually be worth more. Some people enjoy personalising their gifts and putting though into them, and requests for money are like saying 'we don't really care about you thinking about us, we just want to spend your cash'. It makes it feel like a gift is expected. And when you take into account how much it costs to attend some weddings with outfits, transport, accommodation, it can make a guest feel like the couple do not appreciate the effort that has gone into being there to celebrate at all.

As has already been pointed out, if you have no request or gift list, lots of people will give money anyway. People want to give because they want to give, not because they have been asked to.

FWIW, we had a gift list, we just told people that asked that they could type our names into the JL website and see what we would like if they needed ideas. And of course, there were lots of gifts on there for less than a tenner. Those that didn't want to do it that way still gave money, and we were genuinely astounded at how much some people gave. It was lovely to feel the benefit of some peoples generosity, because they had chosen to do it. As the bride and groom, it wouldn't have felt anywhere near as lovely if we has asked for that money, as it would have felt like our guests had presure on them to give, whether they wanted to or not.

And I wish people would stop banging on about what is done in other countries/cultures. In other countries where it is traditional to give money, you don't have to ask. Maybe people from those countries would find it offensive for a couple to go around telling their guests that they had a list somewhere because it's not the accepted done thing, and that would be their personal perogative.

Applauds curlymama.

Curly I think the point others and I have been trying to make, is that it's not considered rude by everyone. So you saying "in our culture" means you find it rude (and yes, you are clearly not alone). I think the point to bear in mind is that it's the way it's done which is the important thing. Saying "We want money" is a bit crass, but if you did as we did and specified that if you want to give us something, that's lovely and thank you - if you are stuck for ideas, any of the below would be wonderful, and if you would like to contribute to our honeymoon fund that would be wonderful too - well, I still don't see what is so offensive about that. And if I and my parents are laying on a big party for people and it is the cultural norm for guests to give wedding present, you do kind of expect them don't you? In fact just before the wedding, my MIL (who is prime offended material) said that it is considered the done thing and an to spend as much on a present as the hosts have done on you. Now I don't know how true that is, and I can certainly appreciate that it would not fit all people at all weddings. The other thing is now many people live some distance away from the hosts and an easy way to communicate en masse is through a website. I have never know anyone to be offended by a carefully thought out wedding list with a real range of items on there, price wise.

I said a few pages back that I would be much less offened if it was done nicely, with the polite couple of sentences to explain that it was not expected, and what you would use the money for etc. But even then, some people will be offended. That's just the way it is. Whether you agree they should be or not. This thread started with the request made by poem, which imho, is just vulgar. Really really disgusting. It is not quirky and fun, it is cowardly.

I know not everyone is offended, but not everyone thinks it's acceptable either. I wouldn't want to offend anyone on my wedding guest list, even those I was forced to invite by MIL! So that means it is better not to ask, and if you get given crap, so be it. But more than likely you will be given money, so then you get to be grateful.

Honeymoon lists are rude because it's like saying to people 'if you lot don't give enough, we don't get to go'! I know that's not exactly how it works, but knot everyone knows that.

Yes, I did kind of expect gifts at our wedding, because I knew people would want to give them, but you keep that to yourself! You don't just presume! On an invitation! Like I said, we did have a gift list, and it got very well used without us having to put it in the invite. It's just that asking at the same time as inviting that I'm really not comfortable with. You wouldn't do it for any other event.

I think it is a jolly good idea to give money towards a honeymoon or whatever. What a waste of money giving a toaster etc when money would be so much more appreciated. Also, most young people have already set up home - what on earth can one buy them,

It seems very petty abd unpleasant to give some undesirable present or refuse to go the wedding. Rather nasty, in fact.

and jolly nasty and presumptious to expect gifts atall franatash