no disiplin!!!???!!!???!!!!???!!!!

[natz23]

my 11 month old daughter gets watched by the mother in law 2 days a week while i work, she also takes her grandson who is 2 and a half,
i cant stand it any more that i may just give up work.
he is a little shite!! to be honest..
i have recently witnessed him throwing his toys at her when she is trying to play, snatching them off her, standing on her feet while she crawls, pushes her.. and so on.
my mother in law, and the boys mother, ina very calm tone say... no no thats not nice
which has no impact whats so ever, hes not listeneing, i want to pull him from her and give him a right good shouting at!! what is wrong with them!! or am i being out or order?
his mum has said to me.. aww hes only 2 he dosnt know!!
bullshit! because when he stands on her hands he looks about to see whos watching! and im sorry but if he dosnt know, im pretty sure he should by that age!! no means no!!!
im so worried about my little girl, she dosnt understand why he does it and just sits and crys! i witnesed this and not one of them even payed it any notice! i was livid!!!!!!!!what is the matter with them?

apart from that hes a lovely little boy but i am starting to dislike him more and more, and dont want olivia or myself around him.
do people not know whow to give disicplin to thier children anymore??? a smack to my arse whne i was young did me no harm, and i soon learnt my lesson!
he gets away with murder!

cant wait till shes older and she can hit him back!!!

I actually do have acrylic nails if that helps to redeem my nasty spelling comments?

Or does it make it worse?

To be honest, ribbing about spelling or anything else is usually just down to being silly and engaging entertaining banter rather than anything else (though obviously lots of people were put out/off by the opening post).

But point(s) taken. Apologies for offence OP.

God I never apologise on here.

Meltedchocolate; I am going to flatly contradict you here and say that toddlers can be and in fact must be disciplined into stopping unacceptable behaviour. I have done it with all five of mine. I don't think I just had naturally considerate children.

You are there to teach them how to behave, and if they are not getting the message you change the way you deliver it; you don't give up on the message. It is not healthy for a toddler to get to age three or beyond with little or no understanding of the idea of consequences for unacceptable behaviour, some inkling of empathy.

Natz is not 'horribly wrong'. The MIL and SIL will reap what they are actively sowing with the little boy who is now allowed to trample on the crawling baby and throw toys at her, and sadly so will his future teachers and schoolmates.

Yes, it is upsetting to see a baby being hit/trodden on by an older child but I think it becomes less upsetting, TBH, as you get used to being a parent. Obviously, aggression from an older child needs to be dealt with but it is extremely common for toddlers to throw things and hit/bite others.

My 2.5 year-old ds currently loves throwing stuff. He'll chuck anything across a room, just to see what happens I guess. We are dealing with it as and when it arises and I am confident it will stop soon. It doesn't make him a bad boy. It's undesirable behaviour, of course, but he is a gorgeous and loving boy.

Neither of my DCs have done the biting phase but they have been bitten by other children. We didn't fly off the handle and weep about it; as long as the other parent dealt with the situation (reprimand, making child apologise etc..) we were happy with the outcome. When our kids are wronged, we do sympathise with them but also point out that we are all human and all make mistakes which helps them to learn about acceptance and forgiveness.

OP; good luck with discussing the issue with your MIL; hope she will agree to supervise more carefully and deal with bad behaviour as it arises.

Earlier today when i was leaving the surgery a little boy (about 3 years) fell over my ds pushchair, got up & gave the front wheel a good slap. I said to him it wasn't the prams fault and he shouted at me that it was. I just laughed it off (little man must of been having a bad day) lol. My point is, boys will be boys. Also, natz, you came across hysterical & scatty at the beginning (V understandable!) Thats no reason for people to gang up on you! You stuck up for yourself very well, you've made me chuckle. It's hard to react calmly when you're baby's being picked on.. Take care

Natz, I symphasise with you, it's gets so regular that you think the child must be evil, but two year olds don't always understand fully what they are doing. The only thing to do is have a word with your MIL and make sure she is watching him properly and taking appropriate action when it happens.

thanks everyone for your posts, good to hear some mature comments, was pretty surprised at the spitefullness earlier (probably spelt that sooo wrong lol) i am trying to type slow in order to keep my words correct and not upset anyone haha.
anyway....

been over to mil's this evening, pretty much sorted it out, after... finding my DD with a nasty red mark on her head, she never mentioned it till i asked her. (pretty sure i should be made aware of ANY bumps to the head. anhoo) he had 'dropped' his toy off the table which caught her head.. that gave me a good start for the 'talk'!

i just calmy said to her i was a little concerned to his behaviour and if he was maybe a little rough with her..
i told her i had noticed it and was a little worried.
she told me she had noticed (news to me!) and would be keeping a close eye on him, i was not to worry and my little girl was in very safe hands, which i know she is!
she told me she would in future tell him he was getting the naughty step if he was nasty to DD.
i feel a little better and the wee man gave me a kiss before i left lol, i lovingly gave him a cuddle lol, and told him he was to look after DD for me because he was her big cousin and it was his job to make sure she was ok. he said yes.. goodbye that was all lol.
so the wee shite is in my good books if he behaves himself!

Well done for having the chat natz, sounds like it went well.

If you have a good relationship with your MIL (which it sounds as though you do), maybe it's worth suggesting that she also focus on praising the wee man on his good behaviour, as well as reprimanding him when his behaviour is bad. e.g. maybe she can make a big deal of asking him to help her look after your DD; if he shows care and concern for her or does something kind, perhaps he could be rewarded with stickers on a chart or something.

Perhaps this is teaching your grandmother to suck eggs?! MIL has obviously been a mum herself so perhaps she already does that kind of thing. If not, it might be worth suggesting. If you feel too awkward about suggesting it, you can 'model' it when you are together with the DCs. Maybe encourage DN to show your DD a toy and then give him lots of praise for doing so. Toddlers adore praise and tend to respond better to it than reprimands. There will, of course, still be occasions when he deserves that naughty step though!

Your MIL sounds really nice. Treasure her :)

thanks olifin, she is lovely and i adore her, we have a very good relationship, she does a lot for my DD, shes not a bad granny she just needs to put her foot down a little lol, shes awful soft!
what you said is actually exactly what i was thinking, like today when i gave him a cuddle and asked him to look after her for me, i knid of wanted him to think he had his own little job and would get praised for being good to her.
i will suggest the charts, my mum and dad used them on us when we were little and they do work, the doog things we did got a gold star the bad was a black one, and if you had all gold stars you got a present at the end of the week, and a special sticker to wear for the day.. will suggest this as i will use it on my own child in the future, would be nice for my nephew and DD to do it together.
ive really calmed down lol, and feel pretty horride after reading my original post, i had not been long back from their house and felt so angry by what i had been seeing, i just exploded, which im sure we all do at some point.
what is this troll i keep getting referred to???
ive seen now that mumsnet has some really decent lovely people on it, and just want to say thanks to all those who were.. well, nice to me
everyone else... i dont really mind whats been said, im not going to loose any sleep over it. i apologised waaaaay waaaay back, but it carried on. never mind problem solved i think, i hope! xx

Havent read all the thread but as puzzled at why finding a childminder or a nursery is the answer unless the childminder or nursery in question doesnt take 2 or 3 year olds and there is an abundance of toys so no child needs to share anything!

springchik, i already said earlier that the nursery was a bit tricky, just due to where we live and work, my partner works away i dont drove, adn the only one even close to us dosnt have the best reputation! also childminders can be very expensive, i give my MIL what i can.. wish it was easier trust me x

I meant other people are suggesting it to you as an answer but I dont understand as your baby will presumably come across 2 year olds there as well!

yeah i know but i obviously would expect proffessional child carers to sort out any problems like that straight away! the problem was my MIL and SI were not.

Sorry only read the first bits of the thread (nasty bits) and not the end bits that'll teach me! Really pleased its been sorted out amicably. Suppose I got abit defensive as I have a 2 year old and also a 5 year old who was 2 not so long ago iyswim! Really pleased its been/being resolved though! All the best with everything!

aww please dont think i hate all 2 year olds lol, i would do anything for my nephew i love him to bits but he angered me very very much lol. i dont blame you for not reading it all lol, was a lot of rubbish some of it lol, i lost interest in reading part sof it aswell. especially my spelling bits lol. people have the right to give opinions, but as for me being new to this, i certainly wont be name calling anyone or being rude and nasty to any comments i have on further threads.xx

Ah glad this has worked out - I've not read thread since I posted - It was after the nastyier replies and I bit the bullet and went against the masses

FWIW I had the same with friend whos DD would hurt DS (she'e 10 months younger). She didn't disipline - this made her DD worse so would distract but of course that didn't stop her doing it again. Better now that I use to make loads of fuss over him - milk and biscuit etc without offering her DD one. One day after this her DD asked for milk and biscuit too - I said of course after she had apologised to DS as her behaviour towards him was unacceptable - both friend and her DD were . BUT it worked after a while and shes less vioment towards him now - others aren't as lucky . Mindyou they were 4 &5 when this happened now 5&6.

My point is that talking expressing concern is a hard thing to do but worth it in the end - well done to taking the mature approach to the thread and MIL.

i could feel my face getting reder and reder when i was talking to her, lol
good idea with the milk and biscuits!!!
x

just one last thing, I think you are totally in the right mentality natz. My sister has dd 8 mths younger than my rather full on 2 year old and if he misbehaved with her and I didn't discipline my ds she'd kill me!! My ds has been prone to outbursts of temper - kicking, biting, hitting, - and as a rather 'girlie' girl (even though I hate that term it at least is acurately descriptive) I have really struggled with his boyishness at times.

But all my friends have said they have no problem with my boy occasionally being aggressive as I always handle it with discipline and appropriate action. Is it easy being the single mum of a full on 2 year old no, but this thread has really brought home to me how it's the dealing with the behaviour and not the behaviour itself that's important.

Good luck natz whatever you decide to do xx

thanks petitfromage, i have learnt from this entire thread that people were right, it wasnt really my nephews fault.. its those who were in care of him at the time. by just letting him get away with it, but hopefully it will be nipped in the bud now.
i think he was probably looking for the attention as well. he was the only grandchild before my DD came along, he is spoilt rotten, so for her to come and steal his thunder has probably rumbled him a bit! thats what im putting it down to.
im going to stock up on chocolate buttons for when hes over and is nice to my DD, " good boy helping her! aww good boy for playing nice, heres some choclate!" lol x

That is normal behavior for a 2 year old.

I love a happy ending

reward the good, ignore the bad - it's meant to work....it's the ignoring bit when they are being little sods that's tricky!!! but yes stock up on choc and build up his bond with your dd. Give it a year and they'll be thick as thieves!!

Sounds a great plan natz re. rewarding him for being nice.

It was what you said in your earlier post re. asking him to look after her that made me think about the whole reward and praise thing. So, you are already doing all the right things and hopefully your MIL will have noticed that and made a mental note to praise him when possible.

exactly, i think ive nailed it lol, aw this mumsnet aint so bad after all thanks all..
would love for them to be close when they are older, he'll probably be the one running away from her when shes up on her feet lol x

Hi Natz23, I am so glad I looked back at this conversation, as the original way everyone laid in to you, has been eating me for days. Hope you have seen a variety of sides to things now, and good on you for coming back and sticking up for yourself. God knows you started a humdinger of a conversation!
I have a boy and girl, and bad behaviour was never accepted, not at all, not for a second.I don't agree that 'all' kids are like this, yes, if it is allowed. Letting kids know what is acceptable from a very young age is a good thing I think. I think I've probably tried most parenting tricks over the last few years, as both were very close in age, but the naughty step, overall seemed to work best in most situations. Calm firmness worked better for me than anything else. And I would definately be on the side of 'discipline' than not. But 'discipline' does not mean I smack my children. It means teaching kids what is acceptable, and this starts early in my experience. Allowing kids to be violent to others, on the basis that people think gentle is best, is skewed logic.