no disiplin!!!???!!!???!!!!???!!!!

[natz23]

my 11 month old daughter gets watched by the mother in law 2 days a week while i work, she also takes her grandson who is 2 and a half,
i cant stand it any more that i may just give up work.
he is a little shite!! to be honest..
i have recently witnessed him throwing his toys at her when she is trying to play, snatching them off her, standing on her feet while she crawls, pushes her.. and so on.
my mother in law, and the boys mother, ina very calm tone say... no no thats not nice
which has no impact whats so ever, hes not listeneing, i want to pull him from her and give him a right good shouting at!! what is wrong with them!! or am i being out or order?
his mum has said to me.. aww hes only 2 he dosnt know!!
bullshit! because when he stands on her hands he looks about to see whos watching! and im sorry but if he dosnt know, im pretty sure he should by that age!! no means no!!!
im so worried about my little girl, she dosnt understand why he does it and just sits and crys! i witnesed this and not one of them even payed it any notice! i was livid!!!!!!!!what is the matter with them?

apart from that hes a lovely little boy but i am starting to dislike him more and more, and dont want olivia or myself around him.
do people not know whow to give disicplin to thier children anymore??? a smack to my arse whne i was young did me no harm, and i soon learnt my lesson!
he gets away with murder!

cant wait till shes older and she can hit him back!!!

oh but but but it's like shootin' fish in a barrellllllll

[petulant]

My DS2 is 2.6, and he is aware enough of not hitting/hurting to be told firmly that he mustn't do that. He still does it sometimes, of course. And DS1 was a shocker - was always shoving other kids over until he was over 3. Was mortifying. I was on the receiving end of some pretty harsh parental reactions in my time, which was upsetting (especially as I always intervened with DS1, and never just let it go with a "boys will be boys" shrug), so am glad you've calmed down a bit .

You've already said that you shouldn't have called the boy what you did - so fair enough. I think you need to address this with MIL, though - or get DP to do it if you can't, because she's not doing him (or your DD) any favours by not dealing with this properly - he needs to be shown, consistently, that hitting is not acceptable. I think it can be done gently (no hitting, shouting or sending to room needed), but it will probably take a bit of time. But if MIL unwilling to do the necessary, I don;t see how the situation is tenable. I don't suppose the boy will be trying nursery again any time soon?

....what DeVere said.

Seriously OP, just wait. It'll be your little one in 18mo time snatching toys and kicking another child.

This is what children do when they are 2. Yes, they need guidance and discipline. They do NOT need referring to as 'little shites'

[rolls eyes]

shut up Dandy

I am very surprised at the attitude that what may be normal for a two year old should be tolerated by the mother of a younger child, especially in an environment where she is paying for her child to be taken care of. I have only one boy, and four girls I may be a scarier mum than most, but I had zero tolerance for rough and inconsiderate behaviour. It has been my observation that when a child takes to throwing toys at a baby it is usually time to take him or her out to a park or a field to work off some of that spare energy. My guess is that the MIL and her daughter sit there yacking and not doing much in the way of supervision or providing activities for the energetic toddler he is bored and lacks direction and does things for attention or just to work off energy.

I think that the MIL probably won't take your concerns seriously, Natz, mainly because this 2 year old seems to be running the show here and too much of a handful for the MIL and his own mum to confront.

Natz23 - please take no notice of some of the nasty posts on here.

How the hell can some so called Mothers on here say that at the age of 2 that sort of behaviour is normal. FFS, its not acceptable and its not normal. My DS didn't behave like that on a regular basis.

I have a similar problem with my Nephew, who at the age of 2 was hitting, punching, snatching, throwing everything and deliberately poking and kicking my DS. My sister just said 'Please don't do that, its not nice'. That sort of behaviour may be acceptable in her house, but not in mine. My DS is 5 and een he was getting sick of his Cousins behaviour.

If he throws a toy, it gets taken away for 30 minutes. If he snatches the toy is taken away and if he hits he goes on time out. Didn't take long for him to learn that his behaviour wasn't acceptable in my house. Very well behaved at my house now, but still shows the same behaviour at his Mum's house because he is allowed to get away with it.

Natz23 - don't worry about calling him a little shit - I have said it in the heat of the moment about my Nephew - obviously not in front of him. Its very difficult to watch your child suffering and the people who are supposed to be looking after her do nothing to stop the bad behaviour.

I really do think that you need to talk to you MIL and offer some suggestions for how she should deal with his behaviour. Taking toys away and timeout would work. Maybe you need to be more assertive and when you see this behaviour, you take away the toy or remove him from the situation. He needs to be talked to calmly and needs to be explained that the behaviour is not nice. He also needs to learn to say sorry. 2 years of age is not too young to be learning these things.

Any parents who think this is normal and aceptable need to go to parenting classes.

God everyone on mn is so moody these days! this place is supposed to be supportive!?

natz - in my head there are 2 options.

1. your MIL is competent to look after 2 children aged 11m and 2y, even if one is boisterous / sometimes aggressive / naughty - in which case you relax and trust her.

1. your MIL is incompetent to look after both of these children - in which case you need to find alternative solution anyway.

hope that helps xx

i rarely call troll, but if this is real i'll eat my flange

Custy, I'd like to see that!

ooh cheeky, i'm not that way inclined unless you are hugely rich and then i could be persuaded

My DP is hugely rich and I have running away tendencies

is your flange low carb?

in tht case i can be persuaded

yes, my flange is full of proteiny goodness ( bit of garlic olive oil to extra flavour)

Natz23 ignore the nastiness, Mumsnet really is becoming somewhere for people to bully, especially if you dare not to be ever so middle class.

Of course this boys behaviour is not acceptable and neither is your mother in laws way of dealing with it.

I have not tolerated my children behaving in this way. Treading on a babies hands for gods sake? No, all 2 year olds do NOT do this.

Apparently we are allowed to call each other c*nts, but woe betide you if you call the 2 year old throwing toys at your baby and standing on her hands a little shite. Nonsense.

Talk to your MIL and if this cannot be resolved I would find alternative childcare.

Fiordgirl - I applaud you for making me smile. Im nothing if not a c*nt!

As for you, I think you'd need at least 3 promotions to even make it as an idiot

Oh lordy Custy...

garlic? I'm yours!

I'm fairly new myself and have only recently plucked up the courage to start posting on here, but have been moved to post as I am quite shocked at the level of vitriol aimed at the op on this thread, the majority of which I suspect is due to sheer snobbery. I don't think the insults that have been levelled at the op are in any way necessary and in fact say a lot about those posting them. The op was angry because her baby was being (as she saw it) bullied. She had a reason to be upset, whereas those calling her names are bullying too in their own form. I bloody hate bullies.

Natz I personally do not consider this to be normal behaviour for a two year old, and if my dd had hurt a baby or smaller child when she was that age she would definitely have been told that this was wrong and disciplined (as someone said before) using time out/naughty step. I have never, nor would ever hit a child but the one thing that would upset me most is seeing my baby being trampled on or hurt by another child. Hurting a baby is definitely behaviour that would have made my blood boil, more towards the parent or carer than the child, but then again, who hasn't at least thought similar about a child behaving in such a way, especially when your own child is being hurt as a result.

I would talk the the MIL about your concerns, or make sure you speak out if it happens in front of you again. Alternatively you may need to seek out alternative arrangements for childcare if nothing changes.

Just wanted to say - when you're looking at a 2 1/2 year old and you have an 11 month old - the toddler looks MASSIVE and although they understand so much, and your 11 month old looks tiny and helpless, that's all you see.

My son was being bitten the other month at nursery, he was 2 1/2 at the time. I was so angry. I blamed the parents, called him some horrific names and went and had a "meeting" with nursery.

The next day, I got pulled to one side to be told that my son had been kicking and pushing and really felt the tables turn!

It's not until you get a 2 year old until you reaslise 1. How much they try to push boundaries 2. How little control you have over them when they are in that frame of mind

He's just seeing what he can get away with. It'll settle down once he realises that throwing toys isn't allowed and then will try again in a few months to see if he can get away with it yet.

Your daughter will have a way to go until she gets to that stage, but maybe you should look at your nephew and speak to his mum - as a mum and talk about the difficulties of having a toddler and how best to deal with his behaviour. It might be that she's already tried the LOUD approach and gotten no where with it, and so is trying a different method. Also, you should remember that he will act differntly at your MIL's house than he will at home because Nanna's have yet another approach to correcting behaviour - my son's Nanna likes to bring cake into the equation.

Just discuss it - keeping all of this to yourself is only going to breed anger inside of you - at least if you discuss it, you can get to know what steps are being taken when he is naughty.

Have you thought as well that when you are there and it happens, they don't comfort Olivia because you're there? Surely while you're present, it's your shift?

HTH, Sarah x

OK, back in usual guise.

[waggles arse at Custy]

Ffs , who on here wouldnt be outraged at their baby being trampled on and hurt while some doting grandma observed and did nothing ?

Clearly the op isnt saying shes going to hit the boy , she wants the mil to get off her arse and do something about him. Whether its normal or not at that age isnt the issue , him hurting isnt ok and he needs to be stopped from doing it. Ive said worse about kids , i dont say it to them and i dont say it to their parents.

And taking the piss out of spelling and punctuation isnt nice , mines shit and i know it , however it can be improved should i be arsed , unlike some peoples attitudes.

It's amazing how many parents seem to think this is the norm for a 2 year old. I know quite a few who thought like this and now see their 3,4,5 year olds behaving in a strikingly similar way. I think it is normal for it to appear at some point but the parents have a responsibility to eradicate the behaviour as soon as they possibly can. I have been through it to a degree with 2 ds and it is not that difficult to get the message across without any hitting or shouting etc etc.. I'm with Pixel et al on this one.
OP- nothing will change unless your mil is prepared to do something about it. You know what your options are.
I would hazard a guess that many posters have said to their dps on at least one occasion that 'x' at nursery is some sort of profanity or at least thought it.

"And taking the piss out of spelling and punctuation isnt nice , mines shit and i know it , however it can be improved should i be arsed , unlike some peoples attitudes".

I do agree with you somewhat natz, my dd 3.5 is quite gentle and does not defend herself when toys are taken or she is hit. But what you are describing is normal 2 year old behaviour, mabey they should be more firm with him. When I witnessed dd toys being snatched by other toddlers or being hit, I say to the child that is not nice, we don't do that behaviour here in a very firm and stern voice. I would like dd to take up some form of martial arts to help her confidence, in the future, not to beat people to a pulp. She is extremely shy.

Just because it is usual 2 year behaviour it should not be left or accepted though, the child should be corrected or they will never know.