to think large ladies proclaiming themselves 'real women' is offensive to us slim types?

[madmn52]

I am so sick of hearing some (stand back from the flame throwers!) big ladies being so defensive about their weight that they even try and claim a monopoly on womanliness. I like being slim and much prefer to be - although I have never really been overweight. I am sick of hearing women saying - 'men prefer a real woman' - or ' men prefer curves' - or 'something to grab hold of' etc.etc. As a slim woman - if I were to walk in the office and announce that men prefer a woman like me to a larger woman - because for example, 'they dont like all that excess flesh ' - then all hell would break loose !! Or if I was to dare say that women over a size 14 were not 'real women' - there would be outrage.
So large ladies - if you are happy and satisfied with how you look - fine - no-ones asking you to put yourself down - but please could you stop putting others down in the process !

Randomwomble you lucky thing, but yes that woman was , that is the type of thing that i am talking about, nasty things, bullying should not be said whatever the persons size.

In my adult life I have been every size from 10 through to 18 (and more when pregnant), I was always a woman as far as I know.

I have never heard a larger woman proclaim herself a real woman, only in the press. That ridiculous DM article that did a "What would a real woman look like in Kate Winslet/Gisele/Cheryl Cole's dress?" crap

And yes, a waist/hips and breasts are still curvy at size 8 and at size 18 (or whatever).

Size isn't the point - women's bodies are not public property!

(nor are men's but they tend not to be scrutinised in quite the same way)

We ALL need to stop judging.

Just to get caught up for a second, why is it that a thin woman can say "but I am naturally thin!" and that gets sympathy and a free pass, but nobody gets to say "I am a natural chubber"? All those types who shriek "cALORIES IN CALORIES OUT" can't have it both ways.

I agree with op

"Armi Tue 31-Aug-10 00:24:53
It did, hmc. Given that those of us of the wobbly variety are daily derided and abused in the media and, in some cases, in the street for our lack-of-skinniness it's a pretty poor show to start bleating about 'bullying' because of an out-dated phrase that is hardly ever heard any more...or haven't people realised that 'real woman' has lately been replaced with 'fat-tub-of-lard-drain-on-the-NHS-walking-time-bom b-self-indulgent-repellent-obese-figure-of-fun woman'?"

ahhhh, that makes it ok then fairs fair and all that. Ive never derided anyone in the street for their weight, but that still makes me fair game does it?

People who make unpleasant comments to people based on their weight are obviously rude and are to be pitied for their ignorance and ignored imo.

I've been a size 8 and a size 20. The bitchiness exists whatever size you are, trust me. You're either too skinny and not 'a real woman', or you're a lazy lard-arse who cares more about cake than her waistline.

It's all complete bullshit.

YANBU.

I am a 'curvy' girl, and I've never said anything like that. I still love myself for who I am, and think I am fairly attractive (despite my excess 'womanliness'!!). I don't appreciate 'helpful' comments about my weight, and as such would never comment on that of someone else.

I do have hips, a bum, a waist and a decent pair of boobs, but those and being slim aren't mutually exclusive so they don't make me anymore of a woman than anyone else.

Why can't people just live and let live?

Notfromconcerntrate - I completely agree with you, I dont "give advice" to anyone about their weight and I would like it if people would keep their nose out of mine too.

If everyone concentrated on being happy with themselves and not worry what Mrs X's down the roads waistline was doing, we might actually have time to get on with the important things in life, and actually err .........have some FUN with our wwomanliness, whatever the number in our jeans says!

YANBU, I was often told I was "too skinny" when younger somehow acceptable but would have been deemed completely offensive the other way round.

to me being above or below a certain weight isn't to do with being "curvy" "real" etc. etc. or whatever it's to do with being healthy. Being over or underweight is unhealthy and if you're in that category you should take steps to resolve that. during my teens and 20s I was unhealthily under weight and struggled to keep it on, now I've had dcs it's not such an issue .

I hate the "curviness" etc. is touted as being preferable whereas in actual fact a lot of the time it's overweight and unhealthy, as is size 0.

hmc - posts about society wont be happy until fat people are wiped out etc etc. - whilst some of theses posts are very very funny you still have to admit are slightly OTT as a rsponse to my OP and other YANBU posts.

Also dismissively ridiculing peoples complaint they are being bullied on the grounds that others get it worse, is hostile IMO.

Just because someone objected to a larger womens shop being advertised as for 'the real women' ( and so indirectly saying she wasnt a real woman ) - doesnt mean she would like the advert to say 'for lard arse drains on the nhs' ...etc etc (or whatever that post said !). That is a completely OTT defence - and deliberately so IMO to undermine that the poster had a valid complaint.

Speaking as a fictional woman, (I'm not skinny, but have no boobs, which are apparently necessary to be "real") it drives me up the wall - it's not oppression, or a huge life problem, but it is very annoying.

"Curvy" also annoys me when used inappropriately - if you don't have to buy your skirts/trousers in a size to fit your bum, and then have the waist taken in two inches then you are not curvy.

Oh come on! Please.

Try being a size 18 and never see anyone like you in the media, in ads, in films, and then think about how bad you might feel. Bigger women get fed up with being marginalised by virtue of their size. Not sure how it really hurts you for them to call themselves 'real women'. You know you are 'real' so don't sweat it. I've been fat and I've been slim - I know at which size I felt better about myself and didn't give a toss whether anyone though I was real or not.

If you are naturally slim you have won one of the lotteries in life - be happy about it.

Sorry meant to add that calling themselves 'real women' is meant as an answer to the media's portayal of slim women only, as if no other type exists. It isn't meant, as I read it, to imply that women less than a size 12 are unreal.

'Real women' aren't airbrushed - that's the main point. Even slim women have cellulite or patchy skin or grotty bits. None of us look like Kelly Brook after a daily Mail airbrushing sesh.

Wish we didn't have to have this conversation.

Ormrenewed - No one is saying its easy being a bit larger. Its not just the sayign "real women", but its when it is used directly at a person to put them down.

Its about people thinking they have a right to put you down for being slim. Being mocked about your apperance hurts no matter what you like. Women can be very vicous to slimmer women aswell as larger ones, and both have feeling that get hurt, particually when you would like to be a bit bigger.

Its still bullying even if the "media" say its good to be slim.

Orm - I have been big - admittedly only briefly and have been slim for 90% of my adult life I would say. But nonetheless I have been both. If you read the OP again it is not just about this 'real woman' phrase which is I admit often used by the media - its (as documented by many other posters )the comments and attitude in the workplace etc. in general.

But it is not us slim girls who are abusing/marginilising big girls - so why take it out on us - two wrongs dont make a right. And it definitely does go on believe me - my daughter worked in an office just her and three other women - all on diets - they made her life a misery - one of them even had a go at her for eating a chocolate bar in front of her - ok for her to eat her fruit or weightwatchers dessert in the office though!! She was totally marginilised by them - it was obviously jealousy IMO. One of their husbands actually had to come in the office and got introduced to the other two at their desk - but not my daughter - who was sat at her desk in the office - even he was uncomfortable about it apparantly and made a friendly comment to my daughter. DD decided to try and join in the conversation - she was dismissively ousted from it immediately. You might just say this was just another case of workplace bullying or maybe my daughter is a very weak character - she is definitely not I assure you and the hostility was definitely weight related from the comments made.

It's the idea that a woman's authenticity can be judged on her figure. It's not about whether it's easier to be overweight or slim. Doubtless, it's easier to be a slim woman. But I think it's sad that the media think it's OK to speak about us in those terms, to decide who is and isn't "real" on the basis of imagined dietary and excercise habits, based on what someone looks like in a bikini. It's a reductive, patronising way to speak about women. Yes, it's 'just a figure of speech', but at the same time, words can be very telling about the attitudes beneath.

madmn52 about your DD. we had a similar situation in our office - a pretty and slim 20something went to the gym in her lunchbreak 2-3 times a week and ate healthily etc etc - she was bullied by the others and was told that she was too thin and shouldnt go to the gym and they tried giving her chocolate bars that she didnt want and had a go at her if she didnt eat them etc.

imagine if it was the other way around - they would be trooping off to HR before you could say 'discrimination'

All women are real women.
None of us should fall into this stupid game playing.
But this also means that if someone does comment on your weight or appearance, then you absolutely must not defend in a similar manner. Otherwise you're just part of the problem and no better than the person who offended you.

I prefer to stay slim - I am slim already (8-10) and like to keep it that way, by going to the gym, watching what I eat etc.

Have heard the old chestnut 'men prefer something to get hold of' from work colleagues when I say I am off to step classes. No, they don't, not all of them. And if a man is more attracted to slim women it doesn't mean he is gay, either.

Exactly summerbird and litchick - the whole point of my OP was exactly that - all womanly in our own way - was not saying anything detrimental about big women in general for their size- only the behaviour of ones who put the slim ones down.

getorf - I used to run up and down (or briskly trot - ducks from off duty H&S reps) three flights of stairs at work instead of taking the lift - by way of a bit of aerobic exercise incorporated into my daily life - having no time for gyms usually.
On an average day I would probably do the equivalent of a half hour gym session or more. I did this really to maintain the weight I was and to counteract being right over a lovely canteen !!

One day I dared to mention why I did this - as above - to a seemingly friendly colleague - who was medium weight really - carrying a few exra pounds since she reached fifties (her words - so back off flame throwers!!) and she turned on me with barely contained venom really - saying - You are so vain - that just shows how obsessed you are with your appearance - thats so shallow -pathetic.

WTF?

lol madmn - people can be so nasty, can't they. My mum has always said that I am vain, obsessed with myself etc because I wear make up and wash and blow dry my haor every day.

You can't bloody win.

I've been fat and I've been thin, and have definitely had to deal with more criticism about my appearance when I was thin. Mostly the obvious stuff came from men, though - women tend to veil a barb in a compliment.

When I was in my late teens early 20's I was a size 6 and had to endure all sorts of nasty remarks from friends extended family and co-workers about how skinny I was and did I eat properly etc. I was just lucky to have a v. high metabolism but also having suffered from acne and being shy it completely battered my fragile self esteem.
I was even accused of being anorexic by one 'friend' which I clearly wasn't (i've always had a substantial arse ) and was forced to defend myself.

At 24 after just having had dd I was a 12/14 and I didn't get any comments about my size, now dd is 2 I've spent 6 months working arse off getting back into shape and I'm nearly back to a size 8 and behold the comments have started again, mostly from middle aged women I barely know who think it's ok to be spiteful if you're thin.

Sorry Rant Over!