to think that the catholic church are bloody immoral and need to be made answerable to the shit they seem to get away with?

[cupcakesandbunting]

I am referring to this; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296

and yes, I am totally aware that the police and government are to blame too but we expect governments and to an extent police, to be corrupt.

I am saying this as a RC too. I am fucking shocked at the amount of revolting crap that the church seem to get away with. Covering up paedophiles/abusers, bombers and who knows what else.

Why are they never made accountable?

Well, the Catholic Church is actually the Catholics that compose it and the vast majority of them don't behave like that.

I presume you mean some of the Church leaders are immoral, which is a very different thing.

The individuals responsible in the heirarchy, yes. The entirety of the Church, which as swanandduck says, is its individual members, no. And I say that as an avowed atheist with a vehement dislike of the Catholic Church's governance.

This is my problem with organised religion in general. The organisation cannot be either moral or immoral - it lacks personality. It can only appear to be what those who represent it are. Unfortunately, this often seems to be biggotted and immoral and those values then become cloaked with legitmacy because they appear to be those of the underlying organisation.

Sorry, by catholic church I mean the Vatican and catholic hierachy.

In which case, yes, I agree with you.

YANBU!!!!!

I think the people who were involved in covering up criminal and immoral activities need to be made to be held accountable for their actions, yes. Also a Catholic. Although finding it increasingly difficult TBH.

I just don't see why a religious organisation seems to escape the law when seemingly, governments and the law itself is accountable to the law, IYSWIM?

An incident involving the church gets picked up on by the media, the Vatican apologises and it's forgotten. Until the next time. Perhaps if people in the church were brought to trial for their frankly criminal activities, then perhaps they'd think twice. It seems that their strategy for dealing with things is keep it shush. Makes me fume, it does.

This is one of the reasons that I left the RC Church-YADNBU!

Rotten to the very core.

YANBU at all.

And for the record, I too can distinguish between the church's bishops, priests and leadership, and the followers of the religion who were, before modern times, the "innocent" party here.

This worldwide criminal organisation has been covering up acts of child rape for centuries, and still do. When they find a priest whose defence of paedophilia charges has become untenable, they don't report him to the police, they move him on to another location so he can rape children there.

They protect child rapists.

This is a known fact. This makes the whole hierarchy of the church culpable. Now let's just imagine for a minute that they are not a church, because people forgive religious organisations for things they would never forgive individuals or companies. Let's imagine a worldwide clique of very powerful men, sworn to celibacy, who have been raping children all over the world for hundreds of years and using political and legal power to cover it up. Every single person here on MN would be shouting from the rooftops to have them all imprisoned, for life.

And this is where the Catholic laity have to accept some responsibility. How could a reasonable human being, especially a parent, possibly excuse an organisation for such crimes, and how too, could such a person continue to proudly be a "member" of such an evil empire?

Any Catholics in the modern era who do not renounce their ties with the church are guilty of supporting the rapists by having "done nothing".

If you continue to be a member of the Catholic church, you are morally and financially, thus enabling these criminals to continue their well-organised paedophile network.

I was thinking this earlier but after listening to a very long interview with the bloke who led the enquiry or whatever it was called on PM this evening, it seems that it was the Police that asked for the collusion because it was felt it would be inciting even more violence to accuse a priest of being an IRA leader. So in this instance (although I am appalled at the way the Church has dealt with paedophilia) I'm not sure I hold the accountability at their door. You could say it was rather convenient though

Does anyone remember the Catholic Church's support of the Fascists during the Spanish civil war?

"With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion"

• Steven Weinburg

I'm still a catholic....and so are millions of other people.

exactly maryz....>

I was living there at that time and remember hearing all this talk and tears about 'claudy' i was about 6 and had no idea what it meant.they are a bloody disgrace but no surprise!

Exactly Mary, but you're wasting your time.

The 'all Catholics are responsible unless you leave' argument is lazy and tired. Leaving the church in high dudgeon is the easy way out and means you don't have to take any action or get involved. Easy peasy and cowardly. Sticking with it, working to change it, working with the many many good people and decent priests is what should be and is happening.

"Secularists are often wrongly accused of trying to purge religious ideals from public discourse. We simply want to deny them public sponsorship."

Wendy Kaminer

That is an interesting point Rockbird. I would be interested to know what any of the good catholics on this thread have done to take action and change things.

Why do we have to answer to you..?

Who the hell are you..