to think that the catholic church are bloody immoral and need to be made answerable to the shit they seem to get away with?

[cupcakesandbunting]

I am referring to this; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296

and yes, I am totally aware that the police and government are to blame too but we expect governments and to an extent police, to be corrupt.

I am saying this as a RC too. I am fucking shocked at the amount of revolting crap that the church seem to get away with. Covering up paedophiles/abusers, bombers and who knows what else.

Why are they never made accountable?

dp: that doesn't promote homosexuality, it observes and reflects it. By your logic, schools promote teh Nazis by having books with Adolf Hitler in them.

Good Lord. I was gay long before I read Oranges are not the only fruit. Would more pictures of straight couples when I was a kid have made me straight? Is that really all it takes to promote homosexuality?

You could always teach your dc not to read them. Or perhaps you could teach them that other people in the world are not catholic and live differently to us. Living alongside each other is sometimes known as tolerance.

"Non-faith schools promote homosexuality by having books with same sex couples in them."

DP,as usual, you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

"In case anyone on here doesn't realize it, daftpunk is an active supporter of the BNP and openly hoped for greater BNP representation at the last election. If you choose to debate with her, you need to know the sort of person you are debating with."

squig: What dp alludes to is it promotes shedding guilt for who you are: the catholic church's fuel is guilt so it, naturally, must oppose it...

i guess i just really resent the conflation of me, ordinary catholic with the hierarchy of the catholic church

to me it is the same as conflating citizen with government

we each of us have a resposibility to act according to our conscience - speaking out, protesting, whatever

i personally think that i do the most good and have the greatest capacity for changing the church from within it

i accept that others will disagree

but i again reaffirm that i find it really offensive to be told that by being a catholic i am one and the same as a child abuser

And you'd be right to be offended by that, did I say that you shouldn't? I was disagreeing with your reply, that doesn't mean I agree with the original accusation, does it?

If your religion tells you that homosxuality is wrong (man shall not lie with man as he lies with woman)...why would you then confuse your children with books depicting homosexuality as normal..?

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."

Napoleon Bonaparte

But these books are not depicting Catholic same sex couples right? So why does DP care? It's just a reflection of the world outside the Catholic church?

Seems like somehow the idea is that pictures will make someone gay (at this point I get the guilt thing).

Or I am terribly muddled.

Seeker...I am a catholic, don't fucking tell me what I can and can't believe in

Can I point out that in the same passage that Paul condemned Homosexuals as "not inheriting the kingdom of God", He also included fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, covetous persons, drunkards, revilers and extortioners.

On that basis almost all of us on here are likely in the same boat. And the bible says a lot more about love and respecting thy neighbour than it does about homosexuality.

Why do Christians pick and choose?

"but i again reaffirm that i find it really offensive to be told that by being a catholic i am one and the same as a child abuser"

If you believe you can change the church from within, then you are exactly not the kind of catholic being discussed. It is the complacent ones who feel that because the church does some good, that the rest of the world should turn a blind eye to all the bad.

Because it IS normal outside of your religion. And your children don't live in a vacuum. They have to grow up and get on in a world that incorporates people with a multitude of views and faiths - many of them different to yours and theirs. So actually, why wouldn't you want them to see these accurate reflections of the world they live in?

"If your religion tells you that homosxuality is wrong (man shall not lie with man as he lies with woman)...why would you then confuse your children with books depicting homosexuality as normal..?"

The same book tells you to kill and destroy members of other faiths. Why aren't you out right now burning a mosque, pet?

"Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree: And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place." (Deuteronomy 12:2-3)

i did go to a catholic school in another country v long ago

i don't recall being told that homosexuality was wrong, but to be fair, i don't recall a lot - it was a long time ago

does anyone know what the rules are for faith schools and pshe? do they get an opt out?

This one should go down well on MN:

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

daftpunk: What is your opinion of the close friendship between Cardinal John Henry Newman and Ambrose St John?

You are, of course, aware that Ambrose St John was a close companion of Newman's and they lived together for 32 years.

Following Ambrose's death Newman wrote:

"I have ever thought no bereavement was equal to that of a husband's or a wife's, but I feel it difficult to believe that any can be greater, or any one's sorrow greater, than mine."

At his own request, Newman was buried in the same grave as Ambrose St John.

heraclese "Why aren't you out right now burning a mosque, pet?"

Really best not to give her any ideas..

"When I think of all the harm the Bible has done, I despair of ever writing anything to equal it."

Oscar Wilde

I don't think there's anything wrong in loving someone of the same sex, infact I think it's a good thing...

What I'm talking about is different.

Can you explain that daftpunk? What is it you are talking about then?

((goes back to being perplexed))

Is it the bumming, dp? It is, isn't it? It's the bumming.

And the rimming.

Heracles

nah rimming is brilliant, gay or not, nowt wrong with a bit of rimming.

God I love this site.