to think that the catholic church are bloody immoral and need to be made answerable to the shit they seem to get away with?

[cupcakesandbunting]

I am referring to this; www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-11061296

and yes, I am totally aware that the police and government are to blame too but we expect governments and to an extent police, to be corrupt.

I am saying this as a RC too. I am fucking shocked at the amount of revolting crap that the church seem to get away with. Covering up paedophiles/abusers, bombers and who knows what else.

Why are they never made accountable?

You're right seeker, and I do know she holds thoroughly obnoxious views on many topics. Shouldn't get drawn in as will never change the mind of a bigot .

Ho hum. I'm off to bed.

fwiw i can understand people's anger with the church

it is justified

i was and am angry too, i am not going to go into any dark night of the soul stuff here but the past year has been v challenging for me as i have struggled to reconcile with my ffaith - saying goodbye to my home country and knowing i was never to live there again was easier in many ways than severing that tie to the church

it is by no means as easy as 'well i don't much fancy what they've chosen this month for our book club, guess i will give it a miss then'

however

i don't need anyone to teach me about my church's history or tell me what i need to be doing though, anymore than british citizens need me to tell them how to be a citizen or where to stick their citizenship lol

i am happy for anyone to debate, or criticise catholicism, lord knows there is a fertile enough ground for that, but i find it beyond offensive to be told i am a rapist

I grew up in a very religious society as an anglican but find it increasingly hard to defend any religion.

The Catholic and Baptist churches still try very had to gain ground in Africa by offering help with one hand but allowing people to die with the other. This stance against contraception is criminal and only exists because people just don't care enough about Africa. It would never be allowed in the west.

How can you support an organisation that actively preaches against a woman protecting herself and her children from HIV because of some medieval belief in contraception being wrong.

I just couldn't sit in a church and listen to my Reverend preach for the exclusion of homosexuals in society. It is why I no longer go to Church. Yes I still believe in God, but I don't believe in the Church and I wouldn't refer to myself as anglican.

You "ordinary catholics" make up the religion and it's up to you to speak out and get rid of your Pope. But he's still there, isn't he? I'm afraid that does not say much for you.

"if it is reasonable to say that i am morally equivalent to a rapist and that i support child abuse by going to church, it is just as reasonable to say that if uk citizens don't renounce citizenship and flee the country they are the equivalent of genocidal colonialist imperialist murderers"

No, it is reasonable to assert all citizens must bear their weight of responsibility though; and you'd be absolutely right in asking "what are you doing about it?".

So......

Ahh EddieIzzard...and one of your posts just made me LOL

seeker daftpunk will get bored.. SHe is probably busy putting poo through "brown" people's letterboxes right now.

so what are you doing about it heracles

if you aren't from the uk, fair enough - there isn't a european nation without bloody hands from some thing or another, let me know and i will get you to account for specif atrocities lol

Honestly. Can someone tell me how one goes about promoting homosexuality? I am genuinely perplexed.

sanielle, she never seems to get bored of spouting her bile on here. Very odd.

Right, really am off to bed now - dh waiting.

What am I doing about it? Doing what Catholics aren't allowed to do: lobbying for a change of leader, of governors, and voting against those with blood on their hands and evil on their minds. Who did you vote for to be the current pope, chibi? Oh right, yeah, I forgot, you're supposed to shut the hell up and put money in the plate...

"What have been [Christianity's] fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

James Madison

"Honestly. Can someone tell me how one goes about promoting homosexuality? I am genuinely perplexed."

www.banditsfc.org/

Tell me that's not an awesome name for a team..

If you think defending my religion is spouting bile it's a good thing you're going to bed, hopefully you'll wake up with some brain cells.

I think we need to remember that the only reason the Christian church initially obtained its temporal power was through political expediency.

Had things gone differently it is possible to speculate that the early Christian sects would have either disappeared altogether, returned to Judaism, or become subsumed into other mystery religions of the period.

you have no idea what i have done, haven't done, said or haven't said

and despite all your lobbying efforts, your government, whoever it is is doubtless guilty of something, most are

by your logic that makes you just as guilty as they are, as you haven't stopped anything from happening

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie - deliberate,
contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and
unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the
discomfort of thought."

John F Kennedy

you do know jfk was catholic, right?

Oh naff off Heracles

Not a terribly good one mind...

Fabulous name

But how is that promoting homosexuality? The players were gay before they joined the team rather than undergoing some conversion on the way to comprehending the offside rule? And presumably this is not a school team?

"you have no idea what i have done, haven't done, said or haven't said"

Absolutely. As I say, one can only bear the responsibilty incumbent with your position within a group. The difference between a religion and a country of birth is one is self-selected, the other is thrust upon one.

"and despite all your lobbying efforts, your government, whoever it is is doubtless guilty of something, most are"

And I shall bear the slings and arrows and contrive to limit same should my choice cause harm to others.

"by your logic that makes you just as guilty as they are, as you haven't stopped anything from happening"

No, that's not what I said at all, did I? Are you sure that's what I meant?

Non-faith schools promote homosexuality by having books with same sex couples in them.

JFK was Catholic indeed, as was I. Since I renounced my faith I'd suggest I've been a better chritian in deed than he ever was in his.

"The so-called Christian nations are the most enlightened and progressive...but in spite of their religion, not because of it. The Church has opposed every innovation and discovery from the day of Galileo down to our own time, when the use of anesthetic in childbirth was regarded as a sin because it avoided the biblical curse pronounced against Eve. And every step in astronomy and geology ever taken has been opposed by bigotry and superstition. The Greeks surpassed us in artistic culture and in architecture five hundred years before Christian religion was born."

Mark Twain

Daftpunk So What?