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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is actually serious neglect

245 replies

scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 08:11

DD (almost 15) has been working all hours under the sun during the summer to save up for a trip she wants to go to (and has made me very proud [boasting emoticon])

A neighbour asked her if she'd babysit for them this week, as their childminder had had an accident and was in hospital (she's gonna be ok). 9 hours a day, 7am to 4pm, takes 3yo to nursery at 7.30, looks after 18month old, picks up 3yo at 3pm, pretty straighforward stuff. The family has been living next door for 6 years, we know them quite a bit, have BBQs together etc.

DD went for her first day today and has just called me very upset and doesn't know what to do. Apparently when she arrived 3yo was all dressed so she started dressing 18mo for the school run, mum was still there and said "oh, don't bother with him". DD assumed mum was gonna be there until she went back, but she got back to find the baby all alone cryin hysterically to the point of throwing up. She called the mum and the mum said "don't worry, it's what we noramlly do, it's only 15 minutes and he's used to it. A bit of cryin never hurt anybody".

Now I don't know what to do. First of all, apart from cruel I think it's also dangerous to leave such a young child alone in the house, 15 or 20 minutes is a very long time. Secondly, I don't want DD involved if something were to happen.

AIBU and where do I go from here?

OP posts:
tabouleh · 23/08/2010 09:35

Was just wondering if the Mum thought your DD had taken the 18m old when actually she was in another room?

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 09:38

well, I suppose that's a possibility. But then, wouldn't she have noticed her son was still around before she left?

I won't lie to you, part of me HOPES DD got it all wrong

OP posts:
Spinaroo · 23/08/2010 09:44

Is there any cahcne that when your neoghbour said to not worry about the baby she meant, no need to dress him before doing the nursery run?

Maybe she did assume your dd had taken him with her (it is a bit far fetched I know) and then was keen to reassure her when it became apparent she hadn't.

Still, it's not the best.

mumbar · 23/08/2010 09:48

pretty much what I was gonna say spinaroo.

As for 14 yo doing this childcare I used to at that age and no-one ever questioned it. Its the rules that have changed noy 14yo's.

My main concern as was yours it seemed from the op is that if something were to happen whilst 18mo alone that neighbour could lay the blame on your dd somehow for 'leaving the baby alone'.

EightiesChick · 23/08/2010 09:55

You say you're on decent terms with the neighbours. Can you speak to the mum and say 'DD said the baby stays at home when you take 3yo to nursery - is that actually what you usually do?' Thing is, it doesn't really make sense if the kids are usually with a CM, and as you've said, you see the mum putting them both in the car to take them to the CM's house. Maybe when she said 'we normally do this', she meant normally when the CM is not looking after them , which wouldn't be often (though I'm not saying that makes it OK, it doesn't) - but then 'he's used to it' seems to contradict that. All very puzzling.

Clearly you trust your daughter to report the conversation accurately, but then there is something strange going on. I would try talking directly to the mum. If she confides in you that yes, the baby gets left alone, then you will need to tell her that she really should not do that and you feel you have to say something. Given that this is surely what SS will do (in the more organised form of an assessment) it's worth you trying first, if you have a relationship with the woman, as maybe she will listen to you, as opposed to SS coming in and making her defensive (probably).

Given that this is clearly a temporary arrangement, I don't think you should blame yourself about the working hours issue either - the plan was that this would all only be for one week, right?

kimbles1984 · 23/08/2010 10:07

I knew a girl who left her 2 year old in bed and went to the flat next door with her baby monitor, she got a visit from social services. is it really not illegal? i think it definately should be! especially when the child is awake and likely to get distressed.

teaandcakeplease · 23/08/2010 10:16

That poor child, God knows what goes through its head when its left alone for 15 mins, terror possibly? Horrific stuff.

I have a 3 yr old DD and a 19 month old son and reading this has made me cry.

Please talk to your neighbour Sad

ChippingIn · 23/08/2010 10:17

Scatteredbraincells - I think you need to take a few deep breaths, it may not be how it seems....

I would go around to the neighbour tonight and say that DD was upset to find the baby alone when she got home and she isn't happy doing that, that she will take the baby too :) Tell her that DD said, that she said, it's what they normally do and say, that you are sure it isn't as they normally take them to the CM's don't they? (stop speaking - let her be the one to fill the silence) and see what she says. Then decide what to do when you have a bit more information.

WRT your DD working - I looked after children at this age, often a newborn baby (which freaks the hell out of me now) for a week or two at a time, I was a very sensible teenager and coped just fine with it, so if you are happy with her doing this for one week - then I really wouldn't stress about the 'rules' - it's not as though she's doing it against her will or is 6 years old! I know many people will be stressing about the letter of the law - but really it's a daft law for a 14 year old for 1 week?!). Most 14 year old girls have far more patience with toddlers than the rest of us! Not to mention more energy & enthusiam for playing!! She's already demonstrated what she would do if she was worried about something and I'm she knows to call 999 if she needs to.

BTW if she was mine I would get her to do a Babies & Childrens First Aid Course (which you may have already done of course!!)

didgeridoo · 23/08/2010 10:20

You will have to be careful because I think it is illegal for an unregistered person to look after children for more than about 2 hours a day. Shockingly, it's only illegal to leave them on their own if it causes unnecessary suffering or puts them at risk!ShockConfused I think the fact the child is greatly distressed counts as unnecessary suffering but that's just me. Surely it would be better take the child on the school run even if they are still in their pyjamas!?I feel very sorry for you & your dd being put in this awful position.

juuule · 23/08/2010 10:25

I second what chippingin says.

tholeon · 23/08/2010 10:57

I'm afraid I do think that even the most sensible 14 year old is too young to look after such a young child all day. I'd never leave my 14 month old with a young teenager for more than a short period, with me (or another adult) not too far away in case we needed to return quickly due to a problem.

Poor baby. I agree you should talk to the Mum first and make sure there has been no misunderstanding and that she really thinks it is ok to leave a toddler alone in the house. If so, you need to think carefully about what to do next - I do think that you must do something. Best of luck.

GetOrfMoiLand · 23/08/2010 11:03

Looking back to when I babysat at the age of 14, I remember telling a three year old to shut up because Nirvana was on MTV.

Perhaps I was just a crap babysitter, but I don't think 9 hours alone with a toddler is a good idea at all. For both baby and teenager.

OP you should look at the regulations around child working and not assume that the employer would alert you to it (why should they, when they are getting cheap labour?). Yes we all worked when we were teenagers, and no it didn't kill us, but frankly I am glad that there are regulations nowadays which prevent teenagers from working all hours for 50p an hour, and there is less exploitation than there used to be.

PYT · 23/08/2010 11:10

The whole situation is disturbing.

Your DD is far too young (and completely unqualified!) to look after three young children all day. Surely you can see this? And what on earth is this woman thinking leaving her children with your DD? As far for leaving a baby/toddler alone for 15 minutes - that isn't acceptable in any sane person's books. I would definitely ring SS.

gobsmackedetal · 23/08/2010 12:11

PYT, I believe the OP mentioned two children, one of which is at nursery most of the day

OP, what happened to both the baby and your daughter is horrific, you know you're gonna have to bring it up with your neighbour, right?

gobsmackedetal · 23/08/2010 12:12

Plus the OP says "almost 15", I know the regs are the same, but there's actually a great maturity difference between a 14yo and a 14.11yo. Still the hours are long though

ruddynorah · 23/08/2010 12:17

I'm quite surprised you thought all these hours were ok for your 14yr old to do, aside from the neglect issue.

loopyloops · 23/08/2010 12:18

Scattered, have you decided what to do? Did you ring the NSPCC advice line?

juuule · 23/08/2010 12:20

The regs are different for a 15yo -

"During school holidays 15 to 16 year olds may work a maximum of 35 hours per week. This includes:

a maximum of eight hours on weekdays and Saturdays
a maximum of two hours on Sunday "

From direct.gov

I agree with gobsmacked that there can be a big difference in maturity between a 14yo and a 14.11yo.

CatPower · 23/08/2010 12:21

Can you next door to check up on your DD? Clarify -everything- with her, then speak to the mum. If they do regularly leave the 18 mo alone then it is neglect, and SS would be keen to do a home visit at the very least. If they're happy to abandon a baby for 15mins, what else are they happy to do?

Original poster
scatteredbraincells · 23/08/2010 12:28

hiya, thank you all for your responses. I've been in contact with DD, she's doing coping brilliantly , baby is having a nap atm.

I have spoken with the mother and told straihtforward that DD called and was very upset because of this. She seemed concerned about the throwing up because "he usually cries for a bit and then plays until I'm back". Apparently the CM doesn't do this, but as she workd 3 days a week the kids go to the CM only on those days, but her dd goes to nursery 5 days a week. I didn't know she works part time!!!

I asked her why did she then employed my DD for 5 days and she said she didn't, alhtough I was present as they were arranging it all and that was my understanding too. That aside the fact is that she left baby alone on purpose, so I said that I'll pop in around 5 cause I'd like a chat, she said cool, I'll get some cake.

I wanna bring it up nicely... but show that I strongly think it's neglectful and will act on it if I must

OP posts:
ThatDamnDog · 23/08/2010 12:33

Yes, scattered, you are doing the right thing. You know you can't ignore this - you would be complicit if anything happened.

tortoiseonthehalfshell · 23/08/2010 12:35

How does she know that he only cries for a bit and then plays until she comes back? if he's alone, and playing when she returns, then she wouldn't know about the crying at all. So he must be crying when she returns. She's just lying, I think.

I think you have to frame it by talking about the fact that your daughter is responsible for the toddler atm, and you've looked up the legal situation about leaving him at home, and the Child and Youth Act says not to leave alone (I know it's not black and white but spin it so it sounds definite) and you don't want your daughter doing anything illegal, plus you have a friend who's a social worker and she said this would constitute neglect, and also what if the toddler got out of the cot (is he left in a cot?) and, etc. Basically just bring up all the concerns as if you've looked at them to support your daughter.

You might also look into whether it's legal to leave small children with an unregistered CM (ie your daughter) all day - someone upthread had doubts about whether that was legal.

thefirstmrsDeVere · 23/08/2010 12:41

Another one here who thinks that anyone who asks a 14 year old to do a full time childminding job is dodgy.

I would be worried about someone who thought it appropriate full stop. You DD sounds fantastic but she is far to young to have this sort of responsibility.

Whether to contact any agencies is up to you but I would get your DD out of that situation NOW.

booyhoo · 23/08/2010 12:50

how on earth does hse know that he only cries for a bit??? does she record him to make herself feel better about it?

she doesn't seem to realise the seriousness of this at all "I'll get cake" or was that sarcasm?

SDeuchars · 23/08/2010 12:51

It's not illegal childminding because it is in the children's home. The teen is officially a mother's help (or nanny), which is unregulated.