Children getting changed in front of the opposite sex for PE-age 8 and 9

[Ayerightyouare]

I am new to posting,not lurking,and after a fab glass or two of Spar 2 bottles for £7.50 am off and running dear children at their grans for a sleepover,ahem
My children,boy age 8,and girl age 9,expressed extreme anxiety over the "changing for PE arrangements"...ie the girls had to get changed in front of the boys and vice versa,in the same classroom.
I saw the headteacher about this before the end of last term,and, to the point, was told that "Well,Mrs insert name,you are the only parent who has brought this up,I like children to be children,innocent,there is no problem,we don't have the staff to supervise 2 different sex groups,there is no problem,the children are okay with it,and you are welcome in to come and see them change in front of each other"
I told her about some of the,for want of a better word,pornographic things that I had heard children of this age speak about.
I do not agree with her,for the sole reason that my children have told me that they do not like this.And,I will not come in as a stranger and watch children changing when I know my own children's feelings on the matter.I explained that children in the school system are not going to go against their teacher when they know that they have no choice in the matter.
I really felt patronised TBH.
Now,in the last week,I have had an example of "creative writing" left on my kitchen table by a 10 yr old girl.I have lots of my children's friends around,and they often do "arts and crafts" at the kitchen table.
Here is what she wrote:

"My Daughter's name, you are a dick head, you suck dick, eat shit, you fancy name of boy,and have sex withname of other boy every night.
name of other boy has cheesy nipples and you suck them every night.Just to tell you how do you know boys name has cheesy nipples do you suck them, got it, you suck other boys name dick don't you? "
I mean,come on,this is a 10 year old girl.It is not her fault,she is just showing what that age group has been exposed to via the media.Her Mum is very very strict.
When the school term commences,I am making an appt with the headmistress and basically demanding that she allows children to retain their dignity when getting changed.I have spoken to my daughter regarding this piece of creative writing,she has just turned 9,and she is very uncomfortable about getting changed in front of boys considering what she has now been exposed to."Sucking Dicks" indeed. Am I being Unreasonable ?

Any fucker,

I am only bringing up a concern.

If no one else shares it,fine.

Still going to see the head at the start of the term.

The Effing bottom line is this:

My children have brought their concerns to me re changing. I did not suggest or lead them into this.

Do you agree that my children's concerns should be considered?

That is the the main thing,and I will go with that.

Great bloody wine at that Spar.Still have one bottle remaining,lol.

Thanks,everyone.

I think you bothering the school is pointless. Instead you should be reassuring your daughter that its okay, and show her how to get changed discretely if it would help. You have already spoken to them.

Oh, and this blaming anything on the headmistress is people take the piss is very convenient.

when you say get changed what do you mean? Is anybody naked or are they all wearing pants and vests? If in their underwear then I don't understand how anybody is being put off by cheesy nipples........?

If they are having to strip naked then I would be uncomfortable about it, but as long as no private body parts are being exposed then I don't understand your problem.

OP I agree with you WRT changing in front of each other for PE. In DD1's class the teacher (female) was also changing with them. It was makind DD uncomfortable (both things). The girls of the classd told the teacher and were granted to change in the toilet.

"If they are having to strip naked then I would be uncomfortable about it, but as long as no private body parts are being exposed then I don't understand your problem."

What YOU as an adult would feel comfortable with is irrelevant, some Dcs do not like having to show even partially naked body to their peers and if so they should not be forced to change in full view of them. Surely part of my body is my body?

OP sounds a bit trollish. But for what it is worth.. I would have been horified at 9 to habe to change in front of the boys. I was probably overly shy though (but there will always be one poor girl in every class who is overly shy). Even in the girls changing rooms when we were older I would head straight to the bathroom to change.. Or I had an elaborate way of removing one shirt and replacing it with another without showing any skin... (Doubt I could do it now!)

If this thread is really about changing for PE. Well I think the OP has a valid point. She obviously comes from a white dominated area, as Muslim girls in particular have real problems with changing in front of boys. So a lot of schools with a mixed population do seperate girls and boys when changing for PE.
My DCs primary allows boys or girls to go to the toilets to change. Although they have a different policy when it is changing for after school sports, which I think is just not thinking on their part.

I do find it surprising that primary schools are still built with no thought of this problem for the older years.

The other stuff I found a bit irrelevant. I'd like them to have privacy because its something we'd expect as grown ups, not because it sexualises children to change in front of each other. Children develop at quite young ages, and one thing that the body changes creates is a huge sensitivity about appearance, that should be respected.

I haven't read the whole thread (first and last page only) but if this is true then I would be furious in OP's position, that is much much too old for children to be changing together for PE. If they were expected to do that, I would be pulling my kids out from PE. It really is not acceptable. Not even keen on it for the infant years reception etc, because what's wrong with giving them a sense of modesty from a young age, but year 3 upwards (ie 7), not acceptable at all. I'm shocked they expect them to do this, my primary school did not and that was about 15 years ago, would think they would have gone forwards not backwards

This whole thread is extremely bizarre. Yes, the OP is a bit garbled, but this is an Internet forum not a thesis submission, so let's give the OP the benefit of the doubt. In any case, the vitriol directed at OP seems completely over the top! If you don't agree, can't you just say YABU without all the abuse?

FWIW I would have been horrified to change in the same room as boys at age 9. I remember the boys at that age and they were obsessed with lifting our skirts in the playground during break time, I shudder to think the harassment if we changed before them! And this isn't about sexualisation, just normal curiosity. Boys (and girls) have always been curious at that age. My neighbour's dd is 10 and is very conscious of her privacy, though she is the least sexually aware girl I know. She has separate changing areas in her school -they were segregated at the end of Y3.

YABU_ i teacher 30 children, where should we send half the class to change and who with. children strip to undies only- no different to bathing suits..

rusmum - when those undies are a bra and knickers containing a sanitary towel, and the child in question is struggling to be one of the first to reach puberty, it is rather different to bathing suits.

God, I meant struggling with the fact they are one of the first, obviously, it not being a race!

We're not talking about 5 year olds, we are talking about 8, 9 and 10 year olds. So there are differences....

put a vest top over top of the bra on pe days. and i am sure ANY teacher would make exception for girls on periods which at 9 are few! I have taught y5 for many years and never had an issue with child or parent. Again it is the problem of where to change children seperately and who would supervise a 2nd group of children?

rusmum - they are 9, why do they need any supervision at all? You don't get supervised in the changing rooms at secondary school, surely by this age, its not needed. I mean, they can dress themselves, I presume. And surely the boys can change in the classroom, the girls in the changing room.

The exception for girls on periods just singles out the girl in question at a time when she is already feeling different, not ideal.

And studies show that between 12-15% of 9 year olds in the UK have either started periods or have developed secondary sexual characteristics, so not that rare at all

www.center4research.org/2010/04/girls-to-women/

We let Y5 and Y6 change separately - TA supervises second group.

not always got a ta also if there is no supervision and soomething happens. Thats my job on the line! well few i teach have started their periods usually higher up.

rusmum - don't get the supervision thing, children change unsupervised in secondary school, ie at 10, so why not at age 9 in primary? If I was given a choice of having my menstruating or pubescent daughter changing unsupervised or with a bunch of boys (who aren't going to be fooled by a vest over a bra, BTW), then I know which I would prefer.

Trying to remember how many of my peers had started their periods before secondary school - there were at least 4 or 5 of us in a class of 20 that I can remember being out of swim class due to periods, so wasn't all that rare even way back then. If you haven't come across it yet, I'm sure you will soon.

A lot of us are supporting half of what you said, OP, just not the sexual language tangents.

I would like kids to be segregated from Yr3 for changing, too. We live in a society replete with sexualisied images and the kids are well aware of gender differences by the start of Yr3 -- changing separtely won't make that awareness worse, but it will give some much deserved privacy to those who need it.

Blimey this thread is real, thought I dreamt it last night

Anyway it seems to have calmed down a lot so I am going to read it properly.

And check out the Spar. There's one nearby iirc.

it would need to be organised in schools is all i was saying- often there isnt a spare room for children to change in primary schools. maybe insurance legal things are different in 2ndary?? I just know if there were an incident accident with unsupervised kids i would be in bother.

ps i didnt mean to put a vest on to disguise a bra merely to cover bare areas of tummy!

rusmum - I think the biggest problem is that a lot of primary schools were built when such things weren't at the forefront - the ones near my home in Surrey are ancient buildings, and people often don't like to discuss/consider the possibility that primary schools kids are physically that developed.

As you can tell, it scarred me deeply

BTW, you're the only person I've seen apart from me who likes to use the word bother. Top word, should be used much more often!

My ds2 is 9 - his class change together for PE - they change in the classroom, there are no showers, nobody is naked, there's no problem. One teacher at the school asks that on ""gym days" the kids wear their shorts under their uniform so that they just remove trousers/skirts when it's time to go to the hall. Maybe if the Op's children are sooo sensitive that could be a solution for them - they could whip off their stuff like in the Bucks Fizz video? am showing my advanced years here, am probably disconnected from reality