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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think its cruel and ridiculous to put cold water on a 3 week old to try and keep her awake....

197 replies

inhirsuteofhappiness · 25/07/2010 15:19

Friends of mine have a 3 week old baby. They have read a certain book (!) and are trying to get their 3 week old newborn baby to follow the routine. She is only allowed to sleep at certain times during the day so when she starts to fall asleep when she's not supposed to, they strip her off and drop cold water on to her to keep her awake They won't cuddle her just in case she falls asleep when she's not supposed to and when it is nap time, she has to go upstairs to her cot.

I just think they are missing out on so much I found the newborn stage really really difficult but getting newborn snuggles was one of the things that made it bearable.

They did the same thing with their first dc and, whilst it did work (they slept through from 8 weeks), I just think its a huge price to pay.

They are good friends and I would never say anything to them. I know its none of my business. It still makes me sad and amazes me that some people are willing to pay such a high price for a decent night's sleep ...

OP posts:
prettybird · 26/07/2010 01:06

Like Lilybolero, I had to use cold water/cotton wool balls/stripping ds down - and even dripping water into his ear in order to get ds to stay awake long enough to feed.

In my case, it was because his weight was dropping down through the centiles and he was sleeping too much (sleeping through at 2 weeks ) so I had to force him to wake-up and stay awake in order to feed him. I really wanted to continue breast-feeding him - and succeeded in doing so, thanks to the support of the breast feeding counsellors at the hospital, who advised doing all these "wicked" things

Should we have been reported to SS, as some (to be fair, not the OP) have suggested?

You can't judge unless you are there all the time.

CoinOperatedGirl · 26/07/2010 02:14

I agree with you doing these things prettybird in an effort to keep your sleepy baby awake enough to feed. To do it to a baby who is otherwise feeding fine, just to keep to an arbitary schedule is evil.

Original poster
inhirsuteofhappiness · 26/07/2010 07:13

priyag - the book they are using does not advocate using cold water to keep your child awake. It merely outlines a proposed routine of sleeping and eating patterns. In an effort to stick to the routine, the parents are trying to ensure the baby does not nap when it is not the "correct" time for it to do so.

bibbity - they do it regularly. We seem them a few times per week and they are very open about it all

prettybird - I don't think anyone has too much of an issue with the method they are using to keep the baby awake. I think it is their motivation that is causing the outrage. Ultimately, you do what is best for your baby and if it needs to eat more because its losing weight, then its a totally different scenario.

OP posts:
stripeyknickersspottysocks · 26/07/2010 08:19

I think there is a big difference to using cold water to keep baby awake when feeding as short term solution when there is a feeding problem compared to doing this day in, day out every time the poor baby is trying to sleep during the day. Poor baby, it must be knackered.

priyag · 26/07/2010 09:06

Prettybird I do not think it is cruel to use cold water to wake a sleepy baby who is not gaining weight, so that it feeds properly. But I do think it is cruel to use cold water to force a baby to stay awake so that it fits a sleeping schedule, which is what the OP claims her friends are doing.

MarshaBrady · 26/07/2010 09:49

Yes this was what I was thinking earlier.. Re distinction between stripping and keeping awake and needing to dab with cool water due to poor weight gain, bf'ding or jaundice etc

I thought I may have missed something.

If it is a matter of routine to keep the baby awake then I think it is not on. Poor thing.

BongoWinslow · 26/07/2010 10:04

I think you should say something. This is beyond a matter of opinion - they're doing something awful to the child.

It will be hard though and they probably won't thank you for it.

BongoWinslow · 26/07/2010 10:06

and I should have clarified - awful because of the reason for doing not, not awful per se (ie what Prettybird did = fine by me)

Multimummy · 26/07/2010 10:08

Sounds inhuman.
These parents are not doing a lot to forge a bond/relationship with their child. The parents are only interested in "mastering" a routine that suits them. Don't they even think of the babies feelings/thoughts/rights?
How incredibly stressful for a 3 week old infant.

chiccadee · 26/07/2010 10:32

OP, agree with the majority on here. This isn't right. Baby and parents are missing out on important skin to skin contact by the sound of it. Do you share a sympathetic HV (and this from someone who is generally a bit at HV advice] who could help? Could you risk the friendship and show them this thread?

Please keep us posted on the outcome.

LeninGrad · 26/07/2010 10:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

shakespeare · 27/07/2010 02:53

This is one of the most disturbing things I have read on MN. I read it last night and couldn't get it out of my head. What the f**k is wrong with these parents?? This isn't about them and what they want, but what the baby wants and needs and that sure as hell isn't be doused in cold water when it needs to sleep!

I'm sorry but I would have to say something to them no matter if it might jeopardise the friendship or was considered 'none of my business'. I agree with others on this thread, this borders on abuse in my eyes.

If they wanted to train something so rigorously, they should have brought a dog.

dizzytrout · 27/07/2010 10:31

I've just read this and I'm disgusted, it made me cry too, I hope someone stops them from treating their baby like this It's really disturbing.

Fibilou · 27/07/2010 21:50

"He phoned her from work the other day when I was there to check how much sleep the baby had and to see whether she was holding her ."

OMG
The whole thing sounds just awful. I can't imagine doing that to a tiny, defenceless baby and if my DH had tried to make me do that sort of caper I would have left because nothing in the world would stop me looking after my baby how I saw fit.

Fibilou · 27/07/2010 22:03

And if the 4 year old is "permanently" on the naughty step then their system isn't working, is it ? The sign of a well behaved, well disciplined is not how it is punished but the lack of any behaviour that requires punishment. A bit like a sucessful police force - you can't measure it by convictions but a lack of crime.

partyhats · 27/07/2010 22:35

I can't believe people would do this, especially to one so young, its selfish and cruel, I would definately say something. If they wanted a robot they should'nt have had a baby. They must be utter gits.

dittany · 28/07/2010 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

femalevictormeldrew · 28/07/2010 09:50

This sounds like abuse to me and laziness on their behalf to not want the bother of their child. They are missing out on some of the loveliest days of their little baby's life and they should be ashamed of themselves.

chiccadee · 28/07/2010 09:53

I keep thinking about this one too. Can you update us, inhirsute? Am keeping my fingers crossed for a good outcome for this tiny baby.

nasdaq · 28/07/2010 10:30

OP what exactly are you going to do?

All very well writing on MN but what about the baby?

Gigantaur · 28/07/2010 10:34

quite frankly i am astounded that some of the advice in these books gets published.

why has someone not sued the stupid pig faced moron for the "advice" she has given.

It is bordering on abuse imho.

and as for your friends i would be telling them that cold water on a 3 week old is indeed abuse and unless they stop it i would be contacting SS

Maria2007loveshersleep · 28/07/2010 10:39

Gigantaur, regardless of whether dropping water is 'abusive' or not (I don't believe it's abusive as I feel the word is overused & misused, but I do believe this practice is very very wrong & misguided)- what is certainly 'abusive' or at least very offensive is to call someone a 'stupid pig faced moron'. Plus there's nowhere in Gina Ford's books that she advocates these practices.

Gigantaur · 28/07/2010 10:41

and?

she is not at all qualified and what she advocates is harmfull.

Maria2007loveshersleep · 28/07/2010 10:47

She has the face of a pig??? Nice. I do indeed think MN should delete, you're being absolutely rude & aggressive.

Whether Gina Ford is 'qualified' or not (by the way lots of parenting books are written by non-qualified people, based on their experience: you can choose to disregard) or how 'harmful' her methods are is a matter of debate. Not a matter to throw tantrums about & make hurtful comments about this woman's looks.

ragged · 28/07/2010 10:55

This isn't about GF advice, is it, really? GF would say that if a baby doesn't easily follow her suggested routine that you figure out how to meet their needs better so that they can wait longer to feed/sleep, not that you torment them into sticking to the schedule.

(I'm not a GF fan at all, btw, but I'd prefer posts to be fair to her).

I'm more interested in the life of the 4yo. If she's on the naughty step that often, the naughty step obviously doesn't work, does it?

I wouldn't phone SS, but I couldn't handle visiting them for a few years, either .