to think its cruel and ridiculous to put cold water on a 3 week old to try and keep her awake....

[inhirsuteofhappiness]

Friends of mine have a 3 week old baby. They have read a certain book (!) and are trying to get their 3 week old newborn baby to follow the routine. She is only allowed to sleep at certain times during the day so when she starts to fall asleep when she's not supposed to, they strip her off and drop cold water on to her to keep her awake They won't cuddle her just in case she falls asleep when she's not supposed to and when it is nap time, she has to go upstairs to her cot.

I just think they are missing out on so much I found the newborn stage really really difficult but getting newborn snuggles was one of the things that made it bearable.

They did the same thing with their first dc and, whilst it did work (they slept through from 8 weeks), I just think its a huge price to pay.

They are good friends and I would never say anything to them. I know its none of my business. It still makes me sad and amazes me that some people are willing to pay such a high price for a decent night's sleep ...

Actually keeping children safe is all our business, just think of all the poor children who have been abused / killed at the hands of their parents.Often family, neighbours and friends must look back and think 'what if I had picked up the phone?'

If you think there are not other safety issues and they are otherwise well intentioned (but misguided) I think you should contact the Health Visitor or the GP; if you have any other concerns you should contact Social Services.

Offer to babysit....

The thing is, they are so convinced they are doing the right thing. When I visit and pick up the baby, she immediately starts to snuggle in and get sleepy. I'm told to put her down and I jokingly tell them to get lost because I'm enjoying a cuddle. They honestly think I'm trying to sabbotage their plans because I am envious of their "great" sleepers when, in their eyes, mine have been so bad...

They are well intentioned btw, if a little bit selfish. They love their dc's but they do like them to interfere with their lives as little as possible . They are very much of the opinion that babies have to fit around your lives and not the other way around.

My DP's Mum is a maternity nanny and has some weird views considering her profession. I would never employ her! For a start, she finds breastfeeding clients a real annoyance because it makes her job harder, she was always asking me to give my DD a bottle when she was tiny. Thankfully she wasn't my first DD and DP's Mum isn't my first bitchy MIL and I didn't succumb to her pressure!

Anyhoo, when she's working with newborns and trying to establish routine etc, she advocates taking all their clothes off and putting them on a (pref wooden or cold) floor to keep them awake. Unreal.

Poor wee mites. All babies need cuddles in my opinion.

Poor baby.

These books on routine are imo, bullshit and add nothing but more stress to the already fairly stressful newborn stage. My fried followed one of these books and literally didn't leave the house for the first 6 months as she was too busy insisting baby slept when he was "supposed" to and keeping him awake at other times. Result? A very unsettled child who just did not settle into a proper sleep at all.

Fortunately, she has now (after lots of concerned discussions with her parents/close friends) ditched the books. Her baby is adorable, has his own self made routine and sleeps 12-14hrs at night.

I also don't think your friends 1st child slept through at 8 weeks due to the advice in the book, babies will sleep over night when they're ready.

I have 2 daughters, did the same with the 2 of them, eldest didn't sleep through until over a year old and youngest was sleeping 7-8hrs at night from 5 weeks. Neither child was forced into unnatural routines.

Please speak to your friend if you are close enough or mention it to a hv, it's so sad for the baby.

Please stop making excuses for them. They can't possibly be treating a baby like this and be 'well intentioned'. a baby who has been on this planet for a mere 21 days needs to sleep as and when and, quite frankly, it's tough shit for the parents. I have a 2yo, the memories of the first three months are still fresh so I have sympathy with anyone going through it but that is no excuse for making the baby suffer. You need to say something, sorry. I wouldn't be able to sit back and watch this. Show them this thread.

Yours friends are being cruel to this new born baby. How can you say nothing?

This sounds like the sort of thing that mothers did in the 1950s to get a baby into a routine. Indeed, I sort of recall relatives doing it or talking about it. I am 48 so probbaly just about remember the old days.

I would not do it but I DO think routine is very important for all children.

MIL wanted me to do this to ds, all i got for months was 'get a cold flannel, thats what I used to do'.

I wouldnt do it now to ds who is 3 never mind a 3 week old, its so cruel. Theres enough time when we're adults and parents to be kept awake when we dont want to be. The whole point of babies is that they sleep / eat / whatever when they need to.

Am surprised it works too, there is nothing worse (and more heartbreaking) than an overtired baby!

it is cruel and it is ridicolous and not saying anything to your good friends makes you complicit. how can you not say anything?>?

Don't be silly shineon. Ticking feet is not the same as dripping cold water on a baby.

Actually, dh has just reminded me that the nurses in scbu used to strip him off and put cold flannels on ds to keep him awake for feeds.

He was tube fed for a few weeks, so had to 'learn' to suck a bottle and would fall asleep as soon as he started to suck. They wouldn't let him come home until he could feed properly and had gained weight, I didn't care that I had to put flannels of cold water on him to achieve that faster.

It's not like your friends are holding her by the feet and dunking her head first into a bucket of ice water, the posts about calling SS are rediculous.

Report them to the Health visitor, they are abusing that child for their own needs.
They should be adapting to the CHILD's needs not the other way round, that's where everyone gets it wrong

lola, that is a totally differnt scenario to the one the OP has described of a full term baby who's parents want him to do their will at 3 weeks old

Used to strip off ds, not dh obviously!

Shineon, grow up. The odd incident of keeping a baby awake long enough to feed is one thing but consistently stopping it from sleeping when it needs to is cruel. 21 days old. FFS.

And every word that's written on MN may or may not be true but we take it at face value and reply to the facts we are given. So stop being petty.

"She is only allowed to sleep at certain times during the day so when she starts to fall asleep when she's not supposed to, they strip her off and drop cold water on to her to keep her awake They won't cuddle her just in case she falls asleep when she's not supposed to"

That's fairly clear to me. Subsequent posts sound like the op is backtracking.

So OP, which is it?