to think its cruel and ridiculous to put cold water on a 3 week old to try and keep her awake....

[inhirsuteofhappiness]

Friends of mine have a 3 week old baby. They have read a certain book (!) and are trying to get their 3 week old newborn baby to follow the routine. She is only allowed to sleep at certain times during the day so when she starts to fall asleep when she's not supposed to, they strip her off and drop cold water on to her to keep her awake They won't cuddle her just in case she falls asleep when she's not supposed to and when it is nap time, she has to go upstairs to her cot.

I just think they are missing out on so much I found the newborn stage really really difficult but getting newborn snuggles was one of the things that made it bearable.

They did the same thing with their first dc and, whilst it did work (they slept through from 8 weeks), I just think its a huge price to pay.

They are good friends and I would never say anything to them. I know its none of my business. It still makes me sad and amazes me that some people are willing to pay such a high price for a decent night's sleep ...

I work as a maternity nanny and doula and am shocked that anyone could do this to a 3 week old

The only routine a 3 week old should be in is one that it has found itself.

3 weeks is tiny...... there is plenty of time to get the baby into a routine once it is a little older.

The first few weeks are hell.... I can remember when my own children were tiny babies, it is hard word and totally exhausting. However, babies are young for such a tiny amount of time and parents should be making the most of having a tiny baby to snuggle up with.

dittany - interesting you picked up on the they. If anything, the DH is more into it than the DW. Don't get me wrong, she wants to do it as well, but I suspect the pressure to do it this early is more from him. He phoned her from work the other day when I was there to check how much sleep the baby had and to see whether she was holding her . She wasn't but I was ...

And they are doing all this to make thier lives easier??He's calling from work to see if she's holding the baby?

Good god, I know I said further up to keep out of their business, but perhaps you should tell them that if they want an easy time with a newborn they are going about it in totally the wrong way.

It´s really sad isn´t it?

When mine were that tiny they had to be prised away from me.

I could have sat cuddling & gazing in wonderment all day tbh.

this reminds me of a programme i watched a few years ago on C4 that was doing an experiment with 3 families and 3 different 'techniques' for newborns. i know one involved co-sleeping, breastfeeding and sling carrying, i cant remember what the second one was but the third was a very strict four hour routine that involved newborn twins being left outside in the pram screeching for 4 hours at a time. the parents weren't allowed to have eye contact with teh babies or cuddle them. when feeding the babies had to be held away from the parent's body and family and friend's who visited weren't allowed to cuddle or talk to the babies. they spent the whole 2 weeks screeching and the mother was distraught teh whole time but the lady who was advocating teh technique and teaching them deemed it a success because the babies slept through. she charged ££££ per day for her services. it was so sad to watch. i couldn't have let anyone do that to my baby just for an tv experiment. to some people babies aren't real people yet.

If a child came to school and told me their parents were doing this to them, I would have to report to SS, no question.

The DH phones from work to check up on her? That sounds a bit controlling and mental to me.

Madness, IMO one of the best things bout newborns is that they sleep so much.

its not ur place to say anything but i think this is shocking and well awful thing to do to ur child, there r other ways of getting routine, my dd slept throught at 6 weeks with no form of torture and lots of cuddles!

surely the baby will fall in to a pattern by its self.. poor baby

That experiment sounds totally unethical, booyhoo.
I can't see how Method 3 could be justified, even trhe most clueless, inexperienced mother knows babies need cuddles. So do the mums, for that matter. It could have interfered with the bonding and attachment between parent & newborn, ffs.

I could have eaten the book and shat better advice than that...

I shudder to think what will happen when the child is older and able to express preferences that don't fit with their ideas. They sound utterly lacking in any emotional intelligence and possibly control freaks as well.

They should have got a dog.

wukteri dread to think what effect it has had on the parent baby bond. if it was me i could never forgive myself for doing it. i watched it with my mum and we were both horrified that it was allowed to be carried out. it was very obviously causing distress to both mother and babies.

booyhoo - I remember that programme as well. I think the "1950's" nanny was Claire Verity wasn't she ??

Miggsie - their eldest is 4 and has practically lived on the "naughty step" for the last couple of years. They are, by their own admission, control freaks

you could be right inhirsute. i can't remember her name. i am sure if i googled it it would remind me.

I was shown by a midwife in hospital how to strip and cold-wash the face of my son because he fell asleep during every feed and was losing a lot of weight.
Didn't work anyway! I've never been able to stop him falling asleep.

yes that is her, although i see she has now been discredited for making false claims about her qualifications. she used the truby method.

Those poor bloody kids.

When my dd was a baby she kept falling asleep when I was trying to bf her and I was told to sprinkle cold water onto her and strip her off to make her cold because she was 'getting too comfortable'

It was the last in a long line of totally conflicting and wildly confusing 'professional advice' I was given. I was struggling badly with BF at the time.

It upset me terribly and I just couldn't bring myself to do that to her. After that advice I'm afraid it was the nail in the coffin for BF and me as I lost all faith in what I was being told

I know this is a different scenario, but with ds1, I had to try and keep him awake for feeds - we had a routine that involved putting him to the breast,

Lily no of course you wasnt abusing your ds you were acting in his best interest - but you werent doing this to be in control of the situation you were doing what you had to to get a baby to feed.

where in gods name has common sense gone when it comes to parenting?

do people really need a book to tell them what to do? i think stopping a 3 week old from sleeping by dropping cold water on them is bloody awful.

i would have to say something. wtf is this book? absolute bloody madness.

I think you should say something. Somebody needs to speak up on behalf of the baby who obviously cannot stand up for herself. I completely disagree with people that say it's none of your business and it's up to the parents how they treat their baby. NO. It's up to all of us to say something, gently and politely and compassionately to somebody who is potentially or actually causing harm to their child, even if they have the best of intentions.

abitTipsy i agree. even if they do have the best intentions, they could still cause harm.

Lily that's completely different. We are talking here about a couple who force their baby to stay awake so that they can get a good night's sleep not a parent trying to feed their baby. You were doing what you had to do in the best interests of your baby, they are doing it to suit themselves and to the detriment their child.

OP I'm a little confused. You started the thread saying it was cruel and ridiculous. But every post since you have backtracked and now it sounds like you don't think they're behaving all that badly. So where do you stand on it?