to think its cruel and ridiculous to put cold water on a 3 week old to try and keep her awake....

[inhirsuteofhappiness]

Friends of mine have a 3 week old baby. They have read a certain book (!) and are trying to get their 3 week old newborn baby to follow the routine. She is only allowed to sleep at certain times during the day so when she starts to fall asleep when she's not supposed to, they strip her off and drop cold water on to her to keep her awake They won't cuddle her just in case she falls asleep when she's not supposed to and when it is nap time, she has to go upstairs to her cot.

I just think they are missing out on so much I found the newborn stage really really difficult but getting newborn snuggles was one of the things that made it bearable.

They did the same thing with their first dc and, whilst it did work (they slept through from 8 weeks), I just think its a huge price to pay.

They are good friends and I would never say anything to them. I know its none of my business. It still makes me sad and amazes me that some people are willing to pay such a high price for a decent night's sleep ...

i don't think that stopping a tired newborn from sleeping my dripping cold water on them is ok , by any stretch of the imagination
needs should be met, not ignored.

at 3 weeks, the baby has barely really made the transition from bieng in utero, warm, held, fed constantly to being outside and a seperate person

if DH dripped cold water on me to keep me awake, to suit his needs, i would be extremely unhappy with that.

why is it ok to do it to a baby?

This sounds like abuse. Which book advocates this? I'm just astounded.

Cold water or tiled floors (!!!!) on a new baby or any age baby is disguting behaviour and could surely send a baby into shock?(especially the cold tiled floors). It makes me feel sick thinking about it.

Shineon, tickling a baby's feet to keep them awake at feeding time is nowhere near what the OP's friends are doing IMO. I always rubbed my Dc's cheek to do the same.

don't like the sound of this either

i have done this with sleepy non feeding jaundiced newborns
(the cold water thing)
it isn't nice to have to do it, i would never try if it wasn't for the fact not feeding was making them poorly
to do it in an attempt to get a 3 week old to fit into your schedule....well i don;t know what to say really

Yuno Yurbutsom Your friend put their newborn on a cold tiled floor??? I don't think I could see 'friends'like that very often. I love a routine, and I realise everyone brings their children up differently...but I couldn't bear to watch it happen. I would keep away.

Because your comment about the op being with them night and day was petty, that's why. If you only discuss things that you had witnessed night and day then MN would be pretty empty. But you know that, so it's not much basis for your argument.

Rockbird - I don't think I was backtracking - just clarifying my OP.

If their dd starts to fall asleep when she is not "supposed" to, they strip her down to her nappy and drip cool water on to her with cotton wool balls to keep her awake. If they (or anyone else) is holding her and she starts to get sleepy at the "wrong" time, then she is put down to stop her from snuggling in and going to sleep. If she continues to fall asleep in her bouncy chair, the whole stripping and cold water starts.

Shiney - I don't have a problem with dc's sleeping in the cot for daytime naps (I try and put DS down in there if we're not out and about). I was just trying to point out that the parents never really get chance to have those lovely moments when a newborn falls fast asleep on you.

I think calls for SS are over the top. I do think they're selfish but I don't think they are abusers. They like the idea of a routine because they are not especially confident parents (and are probably control freaks) and like to have "instructions" on what to do when. I just think 3 weeks is way too early to be worrying about it ....

that is awful. routine is good for children, they come to thrive on a regular dependable routine but at 3 weeks of age, sleeping when they need to is their routine. i have no problem with the sleeping in cot bit but putting cold water on her or setting a baby on a cold tile floor is awful. they must screech their little heads off. how is that preferable to a sleeping baby?

They sound like they are making lives much harder for themsleves if anything. Having thier lives revolve around going through all that effort and stress to keep the baby awake must cancil out a good nights sleep anyway.

Shineon, sorry, I'm being arsey, I apologise. My fecking child is keeping me awake all night and am tired! Have been extremely grumpy on here today.

This has nothing to do with routine, a certain book, I know, I've read that book many many times.

This is stupid parenting and bordering on abuse.

If you have to say something tell them to describe what they are doing to the HV and ask what opinion they have.

I think you really do need to say something - are you going to?

If they start on this path what will they end up doing - using hot water?? I may sound alarmist but this needs to be dealth with.

There is nowhere in the Gina Ford book that recommends cold water! That seems very odd!

If you actually read the book (very few people who criticise it have read it properly, I find), she is quite reasonable - if the baby needs to sleep before the 'designated' time, let her sleep. If the baby needs to feed before the 'designated' time, feed him.

Nothing wrong with a routine at this age - any suggestion that it will be because the child is 'afraid' of the parents is nonsense, but even GF says that it is all a guide and might need adjusted.

YANBU.

You wouldn't drip water onto an older child or an adult. Why is it ok to do this to babies?

God, who could be arsed with all the palaver. I would rather strap the baby to my boob for the first six months and just wander around reading, watching telly etc. rather than obsessing about every minute it has/hasnt been asleep

I used to tickle DS's feet and 'knead' his earlobes, toes and fingers while he was feeding. this is what the MWs told me to do. he was a sleepy baby at birth (low blood sugar and jaundice due to his huge size) and if I let him sleep he wouldn't have drunk enough and would've got more ill.

this is completely and utterly different from the OP as the parents are keeping baby awake just for the sake of a routine, the people she describes are, um, fuckwits

They used to run babies feet under cold water to wake them for feeds in maternity wards, according to my MIL. Sounded dreadful, glad they appear to have stopped that barbaric practice and very and that OP's friends are continuing some form of it!!

Mmmm...DS1 was fed when he wanted, slept when he wanted, he slept through at 8 weeks, midnight til 8am. Didn't need to keep him awake or wet to do that.I didn't let him cry and he was a happy baby, not crying unless he really needed something. Can't really say I agree with what they're doing, only glad for the baby that its summer and not freezing cold winter.

But at three weeks I thought that all they did was sleep & eat-and that that is what they are supposed to do.

it makes me wonder how these parents will deal with their dcs when they start to show assertiveness and individuality as young teens. i can imagine them being quite contolling parents. just my opinion from what OP has said. i don't know them so can only assume.

YANBU That is just awful & so, so

That poor baby.

just read this thread and this is utterly crazy IMO. the poor baby. i was always lead to believe that a baby does most of its growing and learning during sleep thats why a newborn is supposed to sleep so much. my DD used to pretty much do what she wanted when she was firest born. she used to take a feed, poo, then sleep til the next one!! we didnt really try to initiate a routine til a few months old. and that was only the general keep it dark and quiet and times of meals not designated sleep. i think SS is a little drastic but i do think OP should probably have a friendly chat with the parents and just offer advice mother to mother that not all babies are the same and what they are doing could be more detrimental than effective. if they are unsure parents like OP said then surely advice from another mother is more valuable. maybe you could see if she wanted to join MN for handy advice etc.