Bloody, twatting, (D)F

[Bunnysoprano]

I am absolutely sick to death and need some perspective. However, I should warn you, this is long.....

This weekend, I parked my car in the drive in front of DF's car. We had two sets of keys - DF lost one set but denies it. Usually, I leave my keys in a glass bowl in the hall but, for some reason this weekend, I stuck them in my bag.

Today, I had to leave the house about 5:30am as was travelling for work. Whilst on the train to Glasgow, I got a text from DF saying he couldn't get his car out as I had blocked it in and taken my keys. Naturally (and I do understand this), he was annoyed.

He then got a taxi to and from work today which cost £50. However, he has used the money that I take out each month from our joint account to pay for the cleaner. I am apparently to pay this back as I need to be "punished" (I kid you not!) for what I did today re the car.

I have arrived home this evening at 10:00pm after travelling to and from Glasgow today an d am rather tired. Therefore, I have not taken very kindly to this and am absolutely fuming. Part of the reason is because F is saying that he can't afford to take a taxi to work and back (notwithstanding the fact that he is pretty much a three figure earner). Now, I do accept that it was wasted money due to my mistake but I earn nearly half of what he does. I have just paid nearly £400 for flights this month for us to go to a wedding which has left me very short on the basis that DF would sub me if I needed any money. I trusted him to do this but obviously this isn't happening.

We both put equal amounts in the joint account but just enough to cover the bills so there is no flex. F is making dire threats about not putting money in this month etc if I don't pay for the taxi etc.

I know this all sounds RIDICULOUSLY childish but I have actually had a moment of utter panic and thought that I can't actually marry someone who is going to treat me like this. What if I am off on maternity leave and need "punished"?!?!? Will I get no money.

I am fuming and have actually taken myself off in the spare bedroom to sleep tonight and think about things.

I am quite prepared for a total flaming as I am SO angry I can't think straight but AIBU about this?!?

I think all you can do is bide your time and see if his basic underlying attitudes have changed or not.

OK so he has acted on the very specific points you brought up, but it remains to be seen if he starts to treat you with more respect and consideration in general.

It may not be about money next time. Be very on your guard about controlling behaviour, overweening sense of entitlement and name-calling.

Plus, throughout this thread the only thing you have mentioned that is keeping you with him, other than practicalities about mortgages and houses, is that you thought he provided "emotionally security" which he doesn't. So I think you have to decide if you love him really, I suppose.

Agree with what the others have said. I would add another question to the 'Do you love him?:

Do you trust him?

I think you need to let him know that he is on serious probation here. It sounds like you might have given him a wake up call but it might also be a sop to the present without any intention to change. Only time will tell and only you can decide if you are willing to give him that time. I sense from your post that you almost wish he had exploded and been unreasonable in order to avoid you having to make a decision (I can idenitfy with that feeling!)

Would it be useful to make a budget plan for the rest of the year for yourself and ask him to do the same?

This should include holidays, car maintenance, house expense, everything that might come up (including his tax bill in his case and his precious car) and what you think you/he can afford/will be spending for each category. It might be useful to do an audit of the joint account as well (eg how much going in and out over the past 6 months or something)

That way, you can show him exactly how much money you have and where it is going. Discussions as to whether you are good or bad with money to be withheld until he produces one too. That way you can have an informed discussion about your future money relationship.

I also think you need to declare zero-tolerance on any comments about your money management. Could you let him know that you are no longer willing to accept those types of comments and will call him on each and every one? This will really take will power from you (and also from him - in that he will have to accept that he won't be able to get angry if you do call him on it). But if you are able to show to him how often he makes nasty comments it might also help him. You don't have to get into a discussion each time just say "You're doing it again, I don't want to talk to you until you apologise for that comment" and walk away.

I think this might be redeemable but you will need to be very commited to not letting him get away with it. I would be tempted to give him his ring back and say no marriage talk until this has been sorted for at least 6 months but that might be too much of the fighting talk for you at this point.

This is all going to take a lot of energy and so you have to consider whether his good points (of which I am sure there are some) outweigh the time and effort and heart ache that this will take.

To be honest I wouldn't tell him he is on probation for the simple reason that you need to know how is will behave off his own bat. If he has to be told how to behave to the extent FreeButtonBee suggests (and I think she is right in her analysis of what that could take) then surely he can't be the man for you?

Am so pleased you are ok Bunny

I agree you should let the dust settle for a while and see what happens. He has taken your points on board, and thats good, but what would worry me is why, why he thought he was being reasonable in the first place? He doesnt seem to have been good with money so far, and is accusing you of the same, unreasonably. I would have thought a dentist would have had a deposit for a home already. I would also have thought he could be paying a bigger share into the household account as he earns more.

Its just the whys that worry me.

Im new to this thread but just wanted to pass on my support ot you.
And to plead with you to save the thread to review if he suggests anywhere down the line once your baby arrives that it might be a good idea for you to leave work...

I think you need to keep hold of your independance financially and because of this tax thingy issue may a completely joint account is not the way forward..?

I think separate accounts as you have at the moment but he should contribute a far higher percentage to you. And can pay you a sensible allowance whilst youre on maternity leave.

I dont agree with allowances for mothers as a long term things as I think it infantilises. But as I am hoping you will only have a shortmat leave I think it would be fine for short term.

Best of luck.

The sudden u-turn is making me a rather uncomfortable now I've thought about it a bit more.

I think what SugarMousePink says is really sensible. let the dust settle, but find out where you stand.

I bet you are confused. Maybe it is enough to say that you are making no decisions right now, give yourself a break from any decision-making.

I left an emotionally/verbally abusive ex. It took me a while to do it. Two years of thinking about leaving in fact. I would get so confused and exhausted by everything that eventually I gave myself 'time off' from decision-making. For a week or so I think. It just gave me a mental respite, and then I found that the feelings sort of coalesced in my head and I was able to make the right decision for me... which was leaving. That may not be the right decision for you... the point is, you do not know yet.

Good luck with it all Bunny.

Hi Bunny
Glad you let us know you are 'ok'.
It's very confusing. In your shoes I would give it some time to see how it goes... and hope for the best - however, I'm too much of a mug and always want things to work out, instead of getting out when really I know they wont (although I have never been in as bad a situation as you are in). Personally, I think this is too little too late and that his nature/attitude is too ingrained for him to change - but I wouldn't blame you for wanting to 'wait and see'...

Keep in touch and you know we are here no matter how this all turns out no matter how long it takes to get sorted ok!

Hi bunny, speaking as someone who is still hanging on to a relationship that perhaps she should have let go long ago, I understand the confusion.

You need to be careful. Remember to always look at his actions rather than listen to his words. Is he being supportive or just saying he'll support you? Is he contributing financially or just promising he will? Is he being respectful or saying he respects you?

You've got some time now if you want it. Just watch him for a while, look at what he does and make a decision.

My main advice is to not get married if you have doubts. Wait until you're sure. Because being married is likely to make the bad bits worse, as he won't feel he has to put the effort in to get you.

I know that this is slightly different but I think the principles are the same - in our case, money isn't the trigger to appalling behaviour, stress is.

My DH has always become a problem when he's stressed (by anything at all) in that he suddenly goes in to Brownpaper 'hate mode', needling away at me, nit-picking, being rude, being sarcastic, picking fights, not talking to me, gritting his teeth and visibly seething every time I say or do anything, refusing to interact and speak to me unless I've asked a direct question that requires a yes or no answer, arguing when there was nothing to argue about, and generally everything else that is deeply unpleasant.

I used to just bite my tongue and hope it went away but in actual fact it got worse and would go one for up to months at a time. It as an absolute nightmare. I don't know why I stayed. It was a case of when things were good, it was very very good and when they were bad they were horrid. He would insist we went out for an evening and would then go in to verbal attack mode in the pub / restaurant. I would have to ask him to stop or I would walk out and go home. And I did, several times. There was no other way to stop him.

Something would push me that one step to far and then I would flip and then and only then would he back down and apologise and promise to change etc.

Then it would all happen again as soon as he got stressed. Without exception.

Now, 2 DC down the line, I totally overreact and call him on absolutely every comment and every tone of voice that is out of line as I WILL NOT be spoken to in the way that he speaks to me and I know from experience that if I don't say anything, he continues on and on. He is I guess, the true definition of a bully. He always snaps back and then the next day he seems 'normal' again. We are also having longer periods in between his mood changes, so he is improving but I have to say, I have no trust and he's been so utterly foul to me that I don't believe him when he says he loves me. It's all very sad.

In hind sight, I wouldn't have married him.

Brownpaper

I'm sorry you have experienced such awful times. What is stopping you leaving? It sounds like life would be so much calmer and happier without him.

Because I'm a coward and know for sure that he would be absolutely foul to me until the day I died and I don't have the strength to deal with it in front of the kids without affecting their relationship with him.

I am also pregnant again and absolutely dreading the post natal period in terms of how he will be towards me. I will have to have a plan.

But anyway, this is about Bunny - I just wanted to point out that possibly behavioural trends are engrained in people and that sometimes you can only improve things with huge cost to yourself.

You will never forget what he has said to you and it will eat in to your subconciousness and you will always fear him if he is ever in sole financial control.

Bunny

Sorry am only just coming to this thread now but have read it from start to finish and am appalled at your fiance's behaviour.

I'm sorry to say it but I don't think he will change. He will give you all the right answers and do all the right things and make all the right noises until next time. And there will be a next time whether now or next month or next year.

You deserve to have a relationship (if you want one) with someone who will really love you and care for you and not a controlling bully who twists things to meet his own ends and belittles you at every turn.

I understand what it feels like to find it hard to leave a relationship that isn't working. I did the same when I was 33. It was hard but I came out the other side after a while and am unquestionably happier now than I ever would have been if I had stayed. You will need a lot of strength to do it but once you have made the step the hardest part is over.

Good luck whatever you decide and will be thinking of you but please be kind to yourself and put yourself first.

Bunny - if he proposed now (rather than then), what would you say?

I think Littleduck has explained better than my horribly long winded post when she says 'I'm sorry to say it but I don't think he will change. He will give you all the right answers and do all the right things and make all the right noises until next time. And there will be a next time whether now or next month or next year.'

And all the time you will know how he really feels, despite what he says.

It must be hard to go from one moment thinking you might have to leave him, to then think you might be marrying him after all. My question would be (as already mentioned by others) is whether you love him? Because if you don't it doesn't matter whether he changes or not and I think it's certainly fair enough if it's his behaviour in the past has put you off.

Bunny - another thought occurred to me which runs along very similar lines to what Sugar Mouse says.

If your gut instinct is telling you that something is wrong then listen to it. My gut told me that I was making a mistake and wasn't happy whilst I was engaged to my former husband and I ignored it. My gut instinct was dead right. We did get married but the marriage broke up after 5 years, when I was 33. My former husband was a fundamentally decent man and treated me well but the fact remains it was not the right relationship for either of us and we should never have married in the first place. If I had listened to my gut it would have spared both of us a great deal of sadness, misery and heartache.

I would hate anyone else to go through that.

Listen to your gut instinct. It is very rarely wrong.

Hi Bunny -Glad you had a really good discussion and have sorted some things out. I agree with most of the really good advice other people have given you here.
I can really understand how you feel - all emotional turmoil. It's hard when there is no massive bust-up or break-down but a sort of middling okay. (Unless you were hoping he would be unreasonable then you could just walk away because deep down you know it is wrong?)

I think the question - if he proposed now would you accept was a good one. And I always found a silly flip the coin heads=leave him / tails = stay question sometimes tells more as when the coin is in the air sometimes you feel how you wish it would land. (iykim)

But also - maybe go back through this thread and your others and see all the things you complained about F - his attitude to you and your work, the borrowing your car and leaving it with no petrol and making you fix it, penny counting over restaurant bills..... etc .... those things are the niggling little things that grind you down. I think you will see quite quickly if he carries on with those types of behaviour rather than the grander one-off gestures of more money in the joint account and holiday rooms. Those things can be done and then forgotten - it is whether the mind-set of the penny counting continues.
I hope he changes and I hope you maybe find that you can work it out. But I also hope that you look really hard and if you have that sinking feeling in a week or so that it is all going down again - that you have the courage to do something now rather than let things drag you down.
Good luck with everything.

Oh and just something that suck with me ... if you work longer hours and harder days and F is home an hour earlier ... why is it your responsibility to do the food shopping and budgeting and cooking? (Whilst he is polishing his flash car?) And is this symptomatic of the whole relationship? Just a point only you can answer.

cross-posts with littleduck - yes that gut instinct - I've been saying that too - if your instinct is telling you something and you've actually noticed it then pay attention - it IS usually right.

Bunny it is a good thing that he has agreed to do all those things but as others are saying, actions speak louder than lip-service so wait and see how things go.

You have enough time on your side - please be extremely vigilant with your contraception in that time, ESPECIALLY if your DF suggests trying now for a baby.

Also - I would suggest you look now at your feelings rather than anything else - do you still respect this man? Because respect is a necessary foundation for a healthy relationship and if you have lost it then you may still end up splitting up.

Keep an eye on what he does - and the way he treats you - and see how you go. Keep posting as and whenever you need to - we'll support you whichever way things work out. Keep your parents in the loop as well though - they will be able to offer perspective too.