Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 6

[pointythings]

A new thread so that the conversations can continue overnight. We have sadly been very active lately, so I thought it best to be proactive.

These threads are for everyone who has an alcoholic in their life: partner/husband/wife, sibling, child, parent. This is a safe space where you can vent and say all the things you can't say out loud in real life.

The people on these threads have all been there or are still on their journey. We will share what we have learned, crack dark jokes and offer a shoulder to cry on. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5515006-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-5?page=40&reply=153683715

I must be lucky as dh family are all supportive to me and said I did the right thing in kicking him out and divorcing him

maybe different as we have a young daughter

tho they didn’t reliese the extent of his drinking - tho tbh neither did I

what I thought was bad, was no way as bad as it was

I am grateful I still have his family so tech dd family in my corner

his older kids see /speak to me - his brothers and their kids so nieces /nephew

I do think in the beginning they were why have you done this. He doesn’t drink that much.

little did they /I know what he did drink

I’m really pleased you still have ExH’s family in your life and corner @Penguinsandspaniels. So positive as well for DD to have that family connection despite her Dad being, well, you know!!

woke up to a novel worth of email from Ex this morning. It said nothing of any interest. Just pages and pages of either therapy speak or self obsessed ramblings. It is actually a skill to write that much about yourself while saying utterly zero that anyone wants to hear. All these words and no - this is my plan to change. A paragraph or two about how he knows I will never take him back but no why. I am strong and kick arse and that’s why. No - because I am still drinking 200+ units weekly and doing coccaine regularly and have no plan. No - because I destroyed our relationship through addiction. Nothing about his kids either. Wtf.

I actually feel loathing towards him today which is weird because he said not a single abusive word (that’s for next month) but because there is just nothing in that email of any interest to anyone who cared or cares about him re a plan and it blows my brain

It’s the fact they just don’t care about anyone else. So selfish

how does yours afford it @Nogoodusername

Family money @Penguinsandspaniels. meant he and first wife were mortgage free in their 30s. House sold when they divorced, he got just under half of the proceeds (big house). He is now living rent free in a family property while burning through that divorce settlement. It will run out at some point as he hasn’t worked in two years ish now - destroyed his business working drunk. Don’t know whether he will die or run out of money first.

They always find a way don’t they.
Mime doesn’t work, has had loads of jobs but can never manage to keep them.
He claims uc and blows all of that within a week at most, on booze (he might get himself a haircut too) .. then he relies on other people to keep him for the rest of the month. That used to be me. Now it isn’t anymore, he constantly nags his parents for money and guilt trips them when they say no.
He’s been living with two friends (they’re twin brothers who are also alcoholics) rent free, he just buys them drink when he’s got money, then when his runs out, they buy it on their pay days, and by the time theirs runs out, he’s paid again (and so on) …
although after the incident from last week in the park, I’ve been told by a friend who lives in the same street that the police have told him he isn’t to go back there for his own safety. So god knows where he is now.

Money is the root of all evil. If he doesn’t have money. He couldn’t drink

if he gets pip as he keep applying - he will def die as that will be another £300+ a month he would get

Oh @MamaBear81 that sounds like my ex.

again they are so similar

Another alcoholic on his block on uc gets paid and they swap /buy each other booze

Hello just wanted to stay with you all on this thread. So sorry to see how difficult things are going for some of you. Totally relate to the humiliation and shame. A woman I told saivto me don’t worry no one’s going to judge you. I wanted to punch her on the nose!! Why should I be judged I’ve done nothing wrong. It’s all a living hell.

@iknowitsthePittsbutiloveit this is a thread for support for those who have alcoholics in their life and tbh the hell they/you put us through with their lies , drinking and behaviour

there are support threads for those who are sober /trying to not drink

Yes I’ve been on here for ages and have had a lot of support .my husband spiralled last year spectacularly and went for medical detox and rehab in January.
hes been sober since his discharge but obviously early days and I’m still trying to work out how I’m feeling.
@pointythingssaid it was ok for me to stay on here as obviously a relapse is a very real possibility/ probability.

Forgive me if wrong but is this not you ?

saying you have been sober since Feb

Yes because when my husband was discharged the psychiatrist said he had to come back to a dry house. I did enjoy wine but would not have classed myself as an alcoholic ( perhaps I am delusional)
I was on this thread long before that due to my husband’s alcoholism.
it’s ok i understand.

It’s @pointythings thread and if you have a dh who drinks then you need support

have you name changed as I tend to recognise the ones who post on here

I was just shocked to see your previous post as sounds like you are the one with a drinking problem as well

you were probably unlucky - I was reading old posts /threads earlier - mainly to try and make me reliese how far I have come in the past 2+ yrs

and did I do the right thing for dd and I

im having guilt issues how low he has fallen (esp when time hop pops up and see him 3yrs ago looking healthy /us in love etc) tho his family say its not my fault - I feel some of it kinda is as he got worse after I said no more

or maybe he just drank more as no one to nag /hide it

anyway your used name rang a bell as reminded me of a girl Alex Pitt who went to school with and caught my attention earlier in the day / then you posted here - which was why I queried it

but it’s good that dh has been sober over 6mths

how is he doing ?

@Penguinsandspaniels It is absolutely not your fault that he has spiralled so low.

They all have a spiral point. Yes it is often when their marriage/ relationship breaks down, but this is because they now have a brilliant excuse to feed the addiction (poor me! I can’t possibly be expected to get sober when I am alone) and because they have no reason to hide anymore.

That the relationship break down can often start the spiral doesn’t make it your fault. It’s theirs. They could have made the choice to do the hard work and get sober before it destroyed your marriage, and they could also have made the choice to do the hard work and get sober after you left to win you back. The separation could have been rock bottom at which point your ex took control and chose to rise out of addiction but he didn’t. His fault. Entirely his alone.

You saved yourself and you saved a happy and healthy home life for DC. It is not a good environment for children when their mum is stressed and living on eggshells. It is not a good environment growing up with an alcoholic parent. I have some awful childhood memories thanks to my Dad’s alcoholism. You are strong and you are brave.

I get it, I also have my moments where it knocks me for six how much Ex has lost in the past couple of years. This feeling will pass. Losing someone to addiction is so complicated - it’s like watching a slow death and we also know at some stage we will have to grieve the actual death. The cycle of emotions we feel are normal: sometimes sadness, sometimes guilt, sometimes rage, sometimes loathing (my current mood), and sometimes blissful indifference (my favourite cycle)

@Penguinsandspaniels
None of it is your fault.
Like yours, my ex has got worse since the breakdown of our relationship.

@Nogoodusername is right though, end of the relationship is another ‘reason’ (excuse) to drink. Self pity. But they had plenty of opportunities, support and time to do something about it had they really wanted to.
What they wanted was the best of both worlds.

My ex found any ‘reason’ (excuse) to drink.
Job interview (nervous)
Getting a job (celebrate)
Losing a job - because of drink (drown his sorrows)
Me ‘accusing’ him of drinking (when he was!) - his excuse to drink openly because hey, if he’s being accused of it he might aswell do it.

I too sometimes feel guilt. That sense of responsibility has been conditioned into us.
But I know how many chances I gave him, I know how many times I nagged him to get help and how many appointments I attended with him to be supportive.

I also know how much of my own life has been wasted trying to fix his, when the only person who could really fix it was him.

So in the end, my mindset changed from
“what will happen to him if I leave him?” to “what will happen to us (DD and I) if I don’t.”

Guys, this isn't 'my' thread! I'm also not moderating it, that is up to MNHQ. This thread belongs to all of us, I'm just here to continue to make it available and to give support. If someone comes on here who has problems with an alcoholic in their lives but is also drinking dysfunctionally themselves, I would ask them to compartmentalise that and keep their comments on here within the remit of the thread, seeking support for their own issues elsewhere. However, one thing is often the consequence of another, and drinking is an easy (but poor) coping strategy. I can't say I was ever tempted to go that route myself, but I don't speak for everyone.

@Penguinsandspaniels watching them spiral is so, so hard. I only had to do it for 8 months after he moved out, but he spiralled at Olympic standard. About 2 months before he died, his cousin was over from the US and tried to contact him, and he didn't respond. She was staying with a British cousin with whom I am close, and they tried to go and see him. I explained to them that I would not be getting involved (US cousin was a mental health and addiction worker and totally got it) so they went out, got no response and ended up getting a police welfare check. Turns out he was just completely blind drunk wandering about in a ratty dressing gown, stinking of booze so hard they could smell it before he reached his front door.

They can fall further than we can possibly imagine.

Thank you @Nogoodusername not sure I’m strong or brave - many tears I have cried

I do know deep down , it isn’t my fault as they do spiral. I know I gave him so many chances but they are so good at making you feel bad at how hard done by they are /their life is

@MamaBear81thank you. It is hard watching them destroy their lives and yes that’s what he said. If you think I’m drinking then I will or kinda those words and then drank the remaining half bottle of vodka in few gulps

and hard when have kids. She did love him. Adored him. As kids should do to their dads /parents

but over the last few years and esp when last year he called me a fucking cunt in front of her , she has really lost her love for him

@pointythings I’ve said before you are our mother hen. Clucking and looking after us and I’m thankful for this thread

as yes I have great supportive friends and family but they still can’t understand the complexness of feelings and their behaviour

and reading all our stories they are just so alike. I feel we are married to the same person

and yes they fall so hard so quick

and doctors get it wrong. He’s not dead 2yrs later even tho drinking even more than when kicked him out and I went to appointments with him

how long can a body last when be abused daily /weekly

@Penguinsandspaniels

Yep, mine made me feel guilty every time I said I wanted to leave, and continued to do so after I did. And it worked, I did feel guilty, still do sometimes. But not enough to ever go back. We feel it because we are human beings with empathy and compassion.

There is no doubt in my mind that yes, his life is hard and he’s suffering. How could he not be when he has lost literally everything?
And for what? It’s infuriating, and heartbreaking at the same time.

But regardless of how hard his life is, that doesn’t give him the right to make, or expect me to suffer too.
And I did suffer.
But he was either too blind/ignorant to see that, or too self centred to care.

Everything was always about him, what he wanted and needed, how he felt etc..
He got to spend days at a time in bed after his latest bender while I had to parent our child on my own, no matter how I was feeling.

It was me who had to try and act ‘normal’ to protect our DD, when all I wanted to do was curl up into a ball and cry.
it was me who had to go to work to support the three of us because he couldn’t keep a job and blew his uc on booze, it was me who had to arrange childcare and pay the fee’s so I COULD work, because he couldn’t even be trusted to stay sober and look after DD in my absence. It was me who kept us all fed, in clean clothes and a clean house.

And the thanks I got was for him to be straight back on the booze as soon as he felt better, more verbal/emotional abuse, more threats if I refused to give him money.

They are manipulators.
And they rely on that sense of responsibility and the guilt we feel to keep us around.

He had the support, time and opportunities there if he had really wanted them.
Ultimately, the decisions he makes are his own. And so are the consequences of those decisions.

🌸🌸 @MamaBear81

@MamaBear81 ❤️💐
was there ever a time for a few weeks after big binges that he would promise to get sober and could see what he was doing was destroying everything in his life? Or would he just go straight back drinking?

my husband has been attending AA meetings everyday since last Friday, says he’s determined to fight this and get sober. Time will tell, I have very little hope left tbh

@Howdidiendupthere

Yes, every time.
He would sober up from his latest binge, then came the apologies, promises of change.
He appeared genuinely remorseful. Beg me not to leave him, saying he wanted to get sober but couldn’t do it without my support.
But he always had my support. I went to meetings with him, spoke to them about the truth of the situation to prevent him from downplaying it. Signed consent forms for disulfrum and administered the medication every day (i even did this after we had separated).. Went to the GP with him when he blamed his mental health.

He never stayed sober for any more than two weeks at the most. The majority of the time it was only a week. The first opportunity he had while I was out of the way, he would drink. And I would come home to chaos.

What I learned as time went on, was that his remorse was never genuine. His apologies and promises were just him telling me what I wanted to hear, so that I would have that hope and wouldn’t leave.
Going to his appointments etc, was him just doing the bare minimum to create the facade that he was trying. He’d go to a few, then start making excuses about needing to postpone his next one, and then just end up not going to any more. Even when he was going to them, he still drank in between appointments.

And his idea of ‘support’ was basically me enabling - Still being there for him no matter what, because I should “understand it’s an illness and not his fault”, as if his behaviour while drunk was justifiable.

His classic line after a binge (and the behaviour that came with it) was always “you know that wasn’t the real me, it was the drink”.. And my response became “but it was you who made the sober decision to buy the drink, open the drink, and drink the drink.. again.”

And yes, while I do understand that addiction is an illness and not something anyone chooses, it’s treatable. If it wasn’t, there would be no addicts in recovery.

My stepbrother is a prime example. Alcohol and heroin addiction since his mid twenties, and now at 40 has been fully sober for several years, and stayed sober through the death of his father and his fiancée a few months apart - Because he wanted it, and therefore was willing to put in the hard work and do whatever it took to get there.

@MamaBear81 mine didn't even do the facade. He was supposed to attend meetings after coming out of rehab and went to exactly two. Now we live in a crappy little town where there isn't a lot, and he would have had to travel for meetings, but I would have driven him (no buses after 6 pm here). But he always had an excuse for not going.

As for the emotional blackmail - oh, he did that too. When I gave him the ultimatum of drink or divorce, he looked at me and said 'but I haven't hit my rock bottom yet', as if that excused anything. So I told him that DC and I were not prepared to be dragged down there with him and it was going to get sorted one way or the other. It took me almost seven years to get there, but once I hit that 'no more' spot, weirdly enough my resolution was iron. And it never wavered. The first time I went to my support group, they said they'd never seen boundaries like that in a newcomer. Thing is, I wasn't new - I'd been failing at boundaries for years. It just finally stuck, because self preservation had become more important than empathy.

@pointythings

Same here, we live in a very small town.
The only help he sought was from our community drug and alcohol team.
They did a liver function test (which he said was fine, but strangely enough wouldn’t allow me into the room with him while it was being done, and refused to let me attend the appointment where they gave him the results). Blood tests to measure alcohol levels, an out patient detox where he had to go every day for a week to have an injection to flush his system before he could start disulfrum. They offered him counselling, which he agreed to, went to his assessment/introductory appointment then cancelled his next one claiming it would be a waste of time because he didn’t need it.

Then when he was given the disulfrum, he stopped going to his appointments with the drug and alcohol team because he “got the medication he needed to stop him drinking, so there was no need” … and drank while taking them. So I refused to administer them anymore as it can be fatal to drink on those. Another example of how selfish he was, didn’t even consider how I’d feel if anything had happened when it was me who had been giving him the meds.

He’s never been to rehab. Always said he couldn’t be away from us for that long. Well now he’s away from us a lot longer.

After he assaulted me though, while he was waiting to be sentenced he got himself a supporter worker and was given a place in supported accommodation. He had to attend daily meetings while there, undertake random alcohol tests, had a curfew etc.
And he lost his place within a week for staying away for two nights, then returning there on day 3 of his bender still heavily drunk and being aggressive to the staff, to the point police were called to remove him.
So all his excuses about not having any support to get sober is absolute rubbish.
He’s had it.

As I say so often, that so many of our addicts are carbon copies of eachother is breathtaking

I could have written @MamaBear81’s post myself. My Ex liked to recovery fake or treatment fake: doing just enough to keep me and his family off his back or in the role of bad guys that didn’t understand just how hard he was working at recovery.

Ex’a version of the support he needed was utter enabling. He once texted me this re what he needed from me and everyone - it was to hold his hand and listen to his feelings and us all to accept that his choice not to go back into rehab (which was his agreed relapse plan on discharge from last rehab) was his and his alone and we didn’t get to express an opinion on that. I said totally fine, it is your choice, and my choice is that I will not hold your hand and say poor you while you kill yourself with drink and abuse me in the process. Furious he was!

Ex also expected everyone to forgive and forget all the terrible behaviour and verbal/ written abuse because ‘poor him the addict’ and ‘poor him that emotional disregulation is because he is ND’. Once he told me I needed to give him the grace that I give my ND child in forgiving his latest character assassination. Err no because he is a child, you are a fully grown adult man, and the worst my son does in a meltdown is cry. Ffs.

I also oversaw a medical detox even after we separated. Relapsed within the week. Not his fault of course. This one was his ex wife’s fault for not allowing him to see his children again before he had managed a longer stint of sobriety. His DC had begun to find the instability of seeing Dad/ not seeing Dad/ seeing Dad/ not seeing Dad again more traumatic than not seeing him at all - at least they had certainty. They had disclosed this to school but Ex was unmoved - he wanted to see them, it harmed his mental health to be denied, so screw what the children had said themselves that they wanted.

madness.