Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 6

[pointythings]

A new thread so that the conversations can continue overnight. We have sadly been very active lately, so I thought it best to be proactive.

These threads are for everyone who has an alcoholic in their life: partner/husband/wife, sibling, child, parent. This is a safe space where you can vent and say all the things you can't say out loud in real life.

The people on these threads have all been there or are still on their journey. We will share what we have learned, crack dark jokes and offer a shoulder to cry on. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5515006-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-5?page=40&reply=153683715

Just an update, now in refuge and the relief I feel. It’s nothing like I expected, the staff are great. My daughter is really smiley and coming out of her shell. We’ve had lots of silly giggles over nothing.
Ex is back in prison on a recall, he did just over a year where he couldn’t drink, comes out and gets rat arsed and ends up back inside. I honestly think at this point he will drink himself to death.

@YesIveNamechanged80

I'm so glad you're out and safe!! Better times are ahead!

To all:

Whether we've lost a little or lost everything we've all lost something precious because of an alcoholic. But we have not lost 'ourselves, who we really are'! We are all still here and all of us are still standing. We deserve to be extremely proud of ourselves, no matter what stage we are in our own recovery. So well done, all of us!!!

And in other news, because there's aways other news with DH......

He received a letter from the DA with a court date next month to 'show cause' why he should not receive additional DUI fines and/or have his DUI probation revoked and go to jail due to the new charges of harassing 911 and resisting arrest. If he doesn't show (and he probably won't) a warrant will be issued for his arrest and he'll go to jail.

His response? "Why are they persecuting someone who has never committed a crime, waaaaaah waaaaah". When I pointed out that DUI is a crime he replied "Not a real crime, like murder". Alrighty then.

I am so pleased @YesIveNamechanged80 ! Bloody well done that woman!

Whoop @YesIveNamechanged80 and if he’s in prison you hopefully will feel less scared

@AcrossthePond55 oh dear he just doesn’t get it

@Penguinsandspaniels

oh dear he just doesn’t get it

Sadly, no. And I don't think he ever will. At this point I don't think that death will be the first thing to 'take him'. I think that it will be jail and then likely the Public Guardian will step in and put him under a conservatorship. Mostly likely he'll end up in some sort of assisted living facility. I am at peace with that. They can take over his bills and at least I'd be dealing with someone rational as far as selling the house. In California they have their own specialist real estate division to be sure that things are done 'fair and square' in jointly owned houses and I already have the financial settlement that sets out that the profit is 50/50.

This is one of those times that thinking about his future is 'getting to me'. This is so far from what I expected for either of us that it really hurts. But I'll be fine in about an hour or so.

Law is very different in USA. Prison and assisted living would be the best as then surely means no booze

I haven't had a chance to read through this new thread, but in regards to doing things you're not proud of and the lying people were chatting about on the last thread, I've done things regarding my Mum and step-dad I never thought I'd do. I thought I was legitimately going mad because of the lying, hiding things from me, and drip-feeding information over the last few years - my Mum even told me she had potential stomach cancer when her cirrhosis was discovered to try and hide what a problem her drinking was. My mum won't let me go to any hospital appointments with her, and just tells me everything is fine, so in May when I was looking after their dog at their house I went through all of their paperwork until I found a pile of letters from their consultants (my stepdad also has prostate cancer, which he refused treatment for for a year) and took photos of them all. Just knowing the truth took so much weight off my shoulders, and even though I felt awful doing it, I don't feel guilty now.

I haven't spoken to my Mum since Sunday (the day after her 70th when she was drunk at her birthday lunch, doing shots of limoncello and drinking red wine). It's been an awful few days, I am so, so heartbroken. She hasn't got in touch with me, but has been messaging my son (nearly 18) asking him if he wants some paid work dog-sitting and asking if he'd like to visit her. This has been really stressful for him so I bit the bullet just now and sent her a long Whatsapp message setting out our boundaries (that I won't be seeing her socially whilst she is actively drinking, that if I do visit to support her and my stepdad if they need it I will walk out immediately if she is drunk or drinking, and that I will hang up if she calls me drunk, and that neither of my children want to see her whilst she is actively drinking). I feel relieved I've done it. I've been thinking about whether to go completely no contact, but I don't know if I can stick to that right now, and I know that it's really important you stick to boundaries you set. But my kids have decided they want to be fully no contact and I am proud of them for making that heartbreaking decision and will support them to do it.

It wouldn't be prison, it would be county jail. His crimes are misdemeanors and sentences are less than a year. State prison is for serious and violent felonies, prior felonies with 'strikes', and 'specific enhancements' (high level financial, certain weapons crimes, certain sex offenses). Technically both are absolutely no alcohol, but from what I understand state prisoners 'have their ways' of getting it or making it. I don't think it's too prevalent in county jails, most inmates there just want to serve their time and get out.

Assisted livings are another thing. The privately owned one my mum was in did serve wine only at their 'holiday dinners' but it was up to the families and/or the resident's doctor as to whether or not a patient was allowed that one small glass during the dinner. At my aunt's since the facility was part of a larger retirement community run by a religious denomination, it was 'tee total'.

The problem I foresee (at this point) is that he is still 'with it' enough to understand where he was and he'd raise holy hell. I don't mean violence, but that he would be very loud and very continuous in saying he didn't want to be there. I mean, I've actually asked him if he would rather be in a place where his needs were provided for, his room was cleaned, there was AC and central heat, and there were other people around. A resounding 'no'!

It's really horrible when someone is 'bad enough' that they shouldn't be living alone, but still 'with it enough' to have legal capacity. According to the APS SW, choosing to drink yourself to death doesn't mean you lack capacity. Certain behaviours when drunk might, but the problem is that they sober up and 'regain' capacity.

Those are some excellent boundaries. You are totally nailing this, however hard and painful it is.

You are respecting the no contact boundary your children have said. That's the best thing you could have done. You have set boundaries for your own level of contact and they buy you some thinking space - think of these as a first step and remember there is no 'must' from here. There's only what is right for you in terms of preserving your sanity.

@Zibala

Good for you for sending that message! Brava!! You are absolutely right to put down concrete barriers at your boundaries. Those are pretty much the boundaries I set with my brother, back when he was drinking. I'm sure you have, but remind your son (and other DC if appropriate) that it's perfectly OK to block Grandma if he finds her messages upsetting.

If the time comes that you need to go NC, you'll know it. I'm not there with DH but I have cut back on the calls I answer and usually let them go to voicemail first to see if he's drunk.

And listen, I'm in the firm camp that just about all things are permitted when an alcoholic lies to you. So if you copied paperwork, don't feel guilty about it. I've done things I probably shouldn't have to prove to myself that he was lying when it was important that I knew the truth, even if for my own sanity. I never caused him harm by anything I've done and I'm sure neither have you.

Good boundaries @Zibala and if they didn’t lie you /we wouldn’t have to check things

ex rang sobbing down the phone but also pissed - said he was dying of liver cancer - and the doc just called him and the scan showed cancer. I said he hadn’t even had a scan ffs

and no doctor would call on a sat and give that news over the phone

@Zibala well done. You are keeping yourself sane and your kids safe. The stories of lies, gaslighting, manipulation, emotional blackmail are all so similar. Unless they can be honest with themselves, the most likely rock bottom for an alcoholic is an early death. And we cannot help them to be honest with themselves. We can't save them.

My god it’s been a day
my lg hasn’t seen her grandparents (husbands parents) since Monday so I said I’d bring her up for an hr or 2 this morning to all see each other. His dad wasn’t there but his mum (who’s been messaging me all supportive throughout the week) just kinda went psycho at me saying I can’t put him out on the street and I need to educate myself that it’s going to take time and maybe many many goes to get sober, my lg (only 2) got so scared and started crying, I was asking her grandmother to stop this infront of lg, she was so upset but she just kept going and followed me to the car going mental while I tried to get lg in and get away. We both left crying, it was horrendous. I know he’s her son but I really never thought she’d behave like that and esp with lg so upset, she just did not care!
I just think how is this my life.
then husbands rings later this evening asking if he can call to see lg, I said absolutely not if he’s had any drink yesterday or today, swore he hadn’t and been to AA meetings yesterday and today, (was assigned a sponsor also) anyways he arrived and I do believe he hasn’t had a drink yest/today, he was crying, saying sorry and he’s really trying, he hates what he’s done etc.. asking what he needs to do to make this right, he knows he has a serious issue now etc etc..
I just said he needs to get himself somewhere long term to live/stay (he’s been in hotels since Monday) get himself sober, go to meetings, stop lying and try his best and he might be able to build or have a relationship with our lg. asked about us and I said that’s highly unlikely, that I can’t live in that fear any longer.

anyways it’s been a day and just got lo down to sleep, feel like I can finally just sit and cry at what my life has become

Then he can go back and live with him mum can’t he

and she can deal with the many many goes to get sober

@Howdidiendupthere
Yes you absolutely can do all of the things his mother said you can’t. She has no right to dictate the environment you and your LG live in. If she thinks that environment is acceptable, why doesn’t she invite HER son to stay with her!
Don’t allow yourself to be guilt tripped. It’s emotional abuse. Even your LG, her grandchild being clearly distressed by the situation didn’t stop her, and that speaks volumes with regards to how she feels about her grandchild’s wellbeing and what behaviour is acceptable for her to witness!

@Howdidiendupthere so now you know that his family are not to be trusted. They won't support you. They are deep in denial alongside you. They are only interested in enabling him.

Knowing where you stand is power. You will no longer go anywhere near his family with your child. They have no rights to see her. You do not have to do anything for them.

If he wants contact, you do it on neutral ground, in a place where you can walk away if he rocks up drunk. And if he insists on coming home and you can't stop it, you leave with DC. This is where you put in the boundaries, put yourself and your little one first and let him get on with trashing his life. Not your circus, not your monkeys.

As the others said @Howdidiendupthere: MIL can piss off quite frankly. Yes you absolutely can and should choose a safe and healthy environment for you and such a young DC. If MiL wants to support her son through multiple relapses, she can set up that bedroom for him now can’t she.

Personally, I found my Ex got more vile and erratic and resentful with every relapse. When I finally left for good, probably about relapse 5, I was living on eggshells and a shadow of the woman I was before and am now.

I found that Ex’s family pressured me to stick by him because they didn’t want to feel any responsibility or duty towards him. Wanted me to set myself on fire to keep them warm, even though Ex deteriorated daily whatever I did. Screw that

@Howdidiendupthere

Of course his mum went mental. She's not stupid. She knows that chances are her son is going to land on her doorstep and beg to be taken in. That's the last thing she wants and why she's so desperate for you to take him back!

Stand strong. And now that she's shown where her priorities lie (with herself rather than her DGD) it's time to stop any visits. Too much chance of her continuing to try and make you 'see the error of your ways'. If you want to permit phone or video calls, just be sure your finger stays on the 'end call' button. But IMHO unless LG is asking/pining for gramma, I wouldn't even do that.

And after you've cried at what your life has become, dry your lovely eyes and think about what your and LG's life will be from now on. Free from fear, free from embarrassment, free from abuse. You will find your 'place of peace', I promise.

Hey all. DH still not drinking. It has been over 6 weeks since he had a drink. He's still not hearing me say I want to separate though. Told him again last Sunday. He said he didn't know his drinking had affected me that much. He said he didn't know it had bothered the kids because 'noone told him'. And I said as things stand I think we should separate. He said 'that's a shame' and went and put the tv on.

Time to start the wheels in motion if you are sure and file for divorce. Then he will know you mean it

you then have 20w and can’t do anything in that time

tho guess can put the house on the market

@Thefellowship

TBH, I don't think he'll see it until he sees you walk out the door with your bags packed. That's the level of denial that alcoholics (even newly 'sober' ones) live with.

Just quietly move forward with your plans. Don't hide anything you need to do, but don't actually say anything more to him about leaving. All it's doing is frustrating you because he isn't believing you. Whether you simply carry on quietly with your plans in front of him or shout it at him every single day, when the time comes he's going to be shocked and disbelieving. And probably say "Why didn't you warn me about this?".

Do I sound like I've been there? Yep. I'd warned DH many times that at some point I would have had enough of his drinking and drunken behavior and would walk out the door without warning. But when it happened he was as shocked as if I'd sprouted wings and flown away. Even now, he'll say "If I'd known you would leave I would have stopped drinking". At yet, he's still drinking.

@Howdidiendupthere dreadful behaviour from your MIL but it is sadly often the case that the alcoholic's family will defend their relative to the hilt and try and guilt the spouse into staying. It makes life so much easier when it's not their problem. And alcoholics are very good at spinning sad stories. I learned very quickly I could expect no support (and nothing but grief) from my Dh's family. If she contacts you again tell her she is welcome to support him through his future relapses but your priority is to keep your child safe and happy.

@thefellowship he's currently sober but he is nowhere near recovery. Don't bother discussing your plans with him when he isn't willing or able to listen.

@Howdidiendupthere , @CharlotteByrde is right. And it isn't just PILs - my own mum tried to guilt me into not divorcing. She literally told me that 'if only I were kinder to him he might not drink so much'. That did nothing to sway me given that I knew all about her own alcohol use by then, but it still hurt.

She also told me that my Dsis was really kind to her partner and so he stopped drinking. But I happened to know that my sister had literally told him that if he carried on, he'd drive himself into a stone wall and kill himself. And she'd bury him but be relieved. (He did in fact stop drinking and is 14 years sober or thereabouts).

You owe his family nothing. Zilch. Zippo.