Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 6

[pointythings]

A new thread so that the conversations can continue overnight. We have sadly been very active lately, so I thought it best to be proactive.

These threads are for everyone who has an alcoholic in their life: partner/husband/wife, sibling, child, parent. This is a safe space where you can vent and say all the things you can't say out loud in real life.

The people on these threads have all been there or are still on their journey. We will share what we have learned, crack dark jokes and offer a shoulder to cry on. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5515006-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-5?page=40&reply=153683715

Oh @MamaBear81 🙀😢 so he thought he could see dd drunk. He couldn’t even make the effort to be sober for her

any chance the older dd has a child and that was the child /baby going past that he didn’t see aka grandchild. Not sure if he has any

or that the gran did actually take your dd to the playground after you said no

if that is the case she would be having no alone contact ever again imo

@Userccjlnhibibljn8 we love good news. And enjoy your retirement

tho reading on @MamaBear81 it sounds like granny and dd did take to the park. So yes a total no go from me now if I was you in then having lone contact

it’s about trust and she has lied to you

I agree about the potato state they are in. It’s so sad they are like this and it is hard to see them decline so much

well done to your brother

I think we all enable their behaviour but don’t at the time releise it

and same drinks more now as no one to nag or stop him

its so sad how similar all our stories are

we can only do what is best for us and our child/ren

and same. Tho in hospital for 3w for broken hip so sober all that time. But the day back home ordered vodka

Pmsl

pitiful state not potato

tho tbh many are as intelligent as a potato

@Penguinsandspaniels

No, his older DD has just turned 18 and doesn’t have any children.
She came with his mother to collect my DD, so both were there when I said no to them taking my DD to see him. I also told them he shouldn’t have even been invited without speaking to me first.
Then I later found out that not only had he been invited, but given a time and place to meet them before they had even mentioned a word to me.
My gut feeling is that they did take DD to see him, to avoid him kicking off, and hoped I would never know any different.
Saw he was drunk, then left.
They didn’t anticipate this video that started circulating, and since he is being branded a pervert for being slouched in a playground full of children at 2 o clock in the afternoon, allegedly filming them, unable to even string a proper sentence together or get to his feet without the help of a fence, no children with him.. his older DD has felt the need to speak up and defend him against those accusations by telling the truth about why he was actually there.

Good decision!!!

he has asked me to transfer him a big chunk of our savings as in ‘his half’ but I’ve refused to do this as I know he’ll just drink and possibly gamble it away, who knows.
I assume I’ll need to speak to someone about the legalities of untangling financial assets, having supervised visits (if he even requests to see our lg, he hasn’t mentioned her so again who knows)

CAVEAT: I'm in the US, so things may be a bit different there.

If it's a joint account, here you are not 'required' to transfer jack shit. If he wants the money, he can (and will be able to) go get it himself. In fact, he could clean out any joint account if he's a mind to. For this very reason (we had joint finances) I was advised to transfer half of everything into an account in my sole name. And it was a good thing because DH did empty the accounts into one in his sole name. But I'd already moved my half and changed my direct deposits/direct debits about a month before. So if we are talking joint accounts here, you probably should take your half (and only half) and move it.

If it's in a sole account, my understanding (again US) is that you still don't have to transfer it upon his demand as 'technically' any money in a sole account belongs only to the account owner, but obvs do not touch that share of the money. The court can and will decide who gets what.

So, yes, you need to see a family solicitor ASAP. I did and it was the best money I ever spent. I was given the information I needed to 'untangle' our finances even before any legal papers were filed. This made the legal separation much easier as our finances were already pretty much separate and all the judge had to do was 'confirm' them. A legal separation (at my age) was better for me than a divorce as far as my future finances are concerned. This is probably not true for a younger person and when DC are involved

As far as LG, my understanding of UK law (which is similar to US in this respect) is that barring a legal order, the parent who has the child doesn't have to let the other parent see the child, it's a case of 'possession is 9/10th of the law'. Now, whether or not withholding contact is wise in the long run is something to speak to a solicitor about. You have very good reason for not letting him see LG. A solicitor can advise you whether you need to go for orders or 'let sleeping dogs lie' as long as he isn't asking. The other thing with no orders is that if both of you have PR, either of you can keep the child from the other. So the likelihood of him 'getting' LG somehow and refusing to return her is something to discuss too.

Trust me, good legal advice is worth its weight in gold. And it may seem like you are paying 'in gold' but you'll be happy you did. Write down family finances, whose is whose, income and expenses, and assets and take it with you.

IDK, I kinda like 'potato state'. Perfectly descriptive!

Yeah I will have to do this @AcrossthePond55 thanks so much for all the advice and info. I’m in Ireland so not sure if it’s anyway similar to US or UK but legal advice is the best way forward.
it’s a account in my name that I was saving away myself and just last Aug he decided to start adding to it also, he only added maybe 6k to it so it’s not a huge amount of money. I also did some research on maintenance he should be paying and it looks like somewhere between €100-€150 a week. He has a good job, this would be no issue for him but we will see.

i will not be allowing access or visitation to our lg without me present. I would prefer he kept up a relationship with her, it breaks my heart to think of her not having her daddy but that also depends heavily on his choices.

god my head is spinning with all these new things I need to think of. I can’t fully believe I’m in this situation, it feels like an out of body experience. The thoughts of explaining what’s happening to ppl also is making me feel very overwhelmed. I haven’t replied to anyone’s messages/calls in a week, I just feel sick to my stomach and cannot pretend everything is normal when I’m in such a terrible place. (Sorry for the rant)

@Howdidiendupthere
As hard as it is when you still have that love for him, above all else you need to do what you think is best for your LG, and of course yourself.
You have the right to be ‘selfish’ in a sense and put yourself before him, so that you can be the best version of yourself for your LG, without your time and energy being drained by the stress and anxiety he causes.
If he is in the depths of addiction at the moment, you’re the only parent she really has.
In an ideal world I would love my DD to have a relationship with her father, and I tried to facilitate that for pretty much her entire life.
But the inconsistency.. with him being sober for a week and spending time with her, then not seeing her at all for the next 2/3/4 weeks because he’s on another bender would end up being too confusing for her. She’s getting older and more aware of him coming and going depending on wether he’d thrown a bottle of vodka down his neck that day.
There was the turning up drunk on multiple occasions and behaving in ways that were simply not acceptable in the presence of a child, aka threatening to kill himself if I didn’t give him money for more booze, vomiting all over himself, and the final straw was physically assaulting me while I was holding her.
Even after being sentenced for that, less than a fortnight later he’s turned up for a contact session that was arranged behind my back, heavily intoxicated and barely able to stand.
And I have the video evidence, so if he does ever try taking me to family court that video will speak volumes about what state he thinks is acceptable to see his daughter in.
If you feel comfortable enough to supervise his contact with LG, and confident in your ability to end it safely if he does turn up intoxicated, there is no reason why you shouldn’t if you think that’s what’s best for her.
In my case, DD having contact with her father the way he is at the moment would ultimately do more damage than good.
I hope that one day in the future he will sort himself out and be a father to her, rather than someone who just pop’s by to play for an hour or so before disappearing for weeks again. But I’m not holding my breath on that.

So what will you do about mil and aunty @MamaBear81? It’s clear they will always chose their son/sibling so imo any contact dd has with them , you need to be there with them as not trustworthy

@Howdidiendupthere it’s a lot to take in but in 3/6/12mths you will be in a batter place and your dc happier

@Penguinsandspaniels
It’s my DD’s nan and older sister.
It’s really disheartening because her nan has done a lot to help me.
And her older sister, I’ve had so many conversations with her where she’s confided in me about how she felt her childhood growing up with her dad and his drinking was traumatic.
Her mum and dad split when she was 7, so they all lived together until then.
His drinking then wasn’t even half as bad as it is now, but there are incidents that happened and she still remembers them now, even though she was still quite young when he moved out.
I’ve had heart to heart conversations with her more than once, where I’ve spoken about the possibility of cutting her fathers contact if things carry on the same, and she has always supported that, because based on her own experiences of living with an alcoholic parent as a young child, she doesn’t want the same for her little sister.
That’s another reason why I’m so disappointed about the recent deceit.
I genuinely don’t think there was any malice behind it, i believe it was done to keep the peace and avoid having him sending them abusive messages for days on end (as he always did to me whenever I wasn’t giving into his every demand).
But the fact of the matter is, I trusted them with my child and they deceived me.
And as a result, my child was exposed to her father in that state, after not seeing him for the last 4 weeks, when there is a restraining order with terms meant to prevent that from happening.
I don’t feel I can trust them now, so I think the best option is to only allow them to see DD with me there.

Yes dd nan is your mil - meant sister not aunty

and yes only way forward it to be there as well

@MamaBear81 what a horrible situation. I remember pitying my DH that he had fallen so low, sleeping rough etc, but my rage often outweighed the pity and I still remember the sense of shame, that this was my spouse and my children's father in such a state in public. My DH's family would have done similar to your MIL. I couldn't trust them not to put his needs and wants before the children's. @Howdidiendupthere my Dh only ever had supervised access visits. I always went along and never suggested overnight visits because he was in such a bad way and they wouldn't have been safe. He never complained that he wanted time alone with them, and was probably vaguely aware that he couldn't manage to care for himself, never mind children.

@CharlotteByrde
The shame, yes.
By all accounts he’s been in the same clothes for the last week, smells like a brewery bin. Don’t know where he’s currently sleeping as I’ve been told he isn’t allowed to return to the street where his friends live, where he was previously staying. The police have banned him for his own safety after that video ended up all over social media, and people living in the street with children caused an uproar over him being there.
As if the constant drunken state and appearance isn’t humiliating enough, I’ve now got to deal with our whole town thinking he’s a child pervert too.
There are comments on that video slating me also, saying things like “what kind of mother would allow her child around that” etc (because he states (or slurs) in the video that his child is in the playground.
Even gives her full name.
It’s SO infuriating that even after a criminal conviction and a restraining order, we are still caught up in his chaos.

I know it must be next to impossible, but do try to ignore the social media nonsense.They're just enjoying creating drama. Just keep your chin up and keep reminding yourself (and others if necessary) that he's not your problem to solve.

@MamaBear81 im so sorry, my heart really does go out to both u and ur little girl, he’s made such a mess of everything. It’s so frustrating because u have absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about, he has put u in this unforgivable situation. I hope u have a good support network of friends and family around u? I want to give u a big hug xx
can I ask was he like this ur whole relationship or did it just develop gradually & escalated to this over time?
like my husband would have absolutely taken a drink 3+ yrs ago but he could easily not be bothered also & we had plenty of nights out or events where he didn’t drink or had 2/3 to be social etc.. I think that’s why I find it so hard to believe it’s all come to this level of awful. I dunno I’ve found today really hard, he my best friend too and we’d talk most of the day abt little things messaging lots or calls etc he’d often pop up home to us for lunch or tea throughout the day. I just feel so lonely

@Howdidiendupthere
He’s always been a drinker, but not at the level he is now.
His older DD told me he lost his drivers license when she was young (drink driving with her in the car), but she says although there were some awful incidents she can remember surrounding alcohol, he wasn’t drinking as much and as often as he does now.
When we first got together (4.5 years ago) he managed to keep it controlled to a certain extent. He had a job that he’d been in for about 3 years. He still drank a lot, but his behaviour wasn’t as chaotic and erratic as it is now.
He drank often, but mostly lager and didn’t get black out drunk.
He was just an annoying drunk.
But over time, the lager became vodka, his behaviour started becoming abusive (verbally), started with insults and name calling. Gradually moved to threats (threatened to break my nose once when I took a bottle of vodka away from him), he would make suicide threats if I refused to give him money for more alcohol, or threaten to go steal it and tell me it would be my fault if he got arrested.
He would go to work either still drunk, or sneak drunk to work with him and get drunk while there. Lost his job, and since losing that one, he hasn’t managed to keep any for more than a month, so I felt the financial pressure too of having to support all 3 of us on a part time wage.
Now he’s at the stage where he will drink a full 70cl bottle of neat vodka in the space of an hour like it’s water.
He’s been too drunk to even know he was vomiting, so I’ve had to lift his head to stop him choking. Our child was watching this happen. She was there every time the name calling and threats happened.
He even rang the police on one occasion and told them I was abusing her because I wouldn’t give him £5 for a small bottle while he was already out of his head.
It was a horrendous way to live.
It was lonely, I stopped seeing my friends.
Not because he told me I couldn’t see them, but because I knew that anytime I left him alone would be an opportunity for him to drink, then I would have to deal with the aftermath when I got home.
His drinking literally took over my life and controlled every aspect of it. I was constantly stressed and in a state of hyper-vigilance anticipating when the next incident would occur, and what would happen when it did.
I was constantly searching the house for hidden alcohol (and always found it, yet he would STILL deny it was his), sniffing his glass when he left the room to check if there was alcohol in it.
My entire life revolved around trying to keep him sober, and dealing with the chaos when I couldn’t. I was a miserable, stressed out shell, and that wasn’t fair on my DD.
It was exhausting having to put on an act 24/7, and pretend like everything was ok because o wanted to keep things ‘normal’ for her. But things were not normal, far from it.
I wasn’t me anymore.
I still get pangs of guilt now, and despite the chaos I’m still finding myself dragged into, our home is finally our safe place again.
It’s calm, it’s stable, it’s peaceful.
It speaks volumes when one parent chooses to raise a child alone because it’s a better option than sharing that responsibility with someone who isn’t capable of looking after themselves, let alone a child.
It isn’t easy. When she’s unwell it’s me who has to take time off work to look after her, it’s me who has to financially support her, it’s me who gets up early every morning even though she might have been up 3 times during the night, it’s me who has to navigate a job and childcare arrangements. But all of that is easier than living the way we were.
I was still the one doing all those things by myself while he was here anyway.
If anything, him not being here is one less thing to handle.
I’ve started seeing friends again. And my attention is focused on my DD instead of her dad and his drinking.
I’m getting my life back, but that doesn’t make me feel any less sad to see how much his is crumbling.

I can reason and agree and sympathises with all you that your wrote @MamaBear81

thr crazy thing is how they neck the neat vodka like water

gulp it down in seconds

i like gin. Neat gin is rank. NOWAY I could down 1/2 a bottle neat in seconds

@Penguinsandspaniels

Oh god I know, it used to make me feel sick just seeing it. He’d always buy the cheap stuff too (cheaper it is, more bottles he can buy), smelt like paint stripper!
Many a time he would down if, vomit everywhere (and leave it for me to clean up) then go right back to drinking more while covered in his own sick.
Then he would wonder why, as our relationship went on, I didn’t want to be intimate with him anymore.

@MamaBear81 So much of what you say resonates with me, it is hard to understand how they can put themselves through it.

For me, now over 2 years out, I still find myself looking over my shoulder as it were. Yesterday I found myself in a canteen conversation at work as I was about to leave. My first thought was still, mustn’t be late, how do I explain my lateness….then realising I can do what I want and I owe no one an explanation.

A few weeks ago a friend was staying, I’d offered whisky (they are Scottish!). Subconsciously I checked the bottle level in the morning.

So many patterns to be unlearned.
Wishing you well, and stay strong, it is so hard, but it it is the right thing.

@MamaBear81 I relate to so many parts of this also, it’s so so sad. The fact it’s somewhat easier (so tough) to be the sole person everything falls on to raise a child than to have that second parent in ur life. I’ve cancelled so many plans over the last few months as I was terrified if I wasn’t here that he’d drink and what I’d return to. I did go for one night last week to visit my sister, he had me convinced he was so busy and felt absolutely no interest in having a drink etc.. cut to a few hrs later I knew he was drinking from how he was acting, I was stressed out and so absent for that visit with my sister, panicking about what I’d find when I got home. Sure enough he was drunk and smelt of drink when I got home, tried to convince me he’d had some non alcoholic beers 🙄 like do they think we are that simple 🤷🏼‍♀️ anyways that’s what kicked off this episode and here we are a week later separated.

I know I’ll be ok and I’ll provide the best ever future for my dd but it’s just surreal that I’m in this situation. We had also got pregnant in April this yr and were so excited, it unfortunately ended in miscarriage in June so just a few weeks ago my life was at a completely different stage, it’s a lot to grieve

@MamaBear81 your post made me cry a little bit. Apart from the fact that I thankfully have no children, you could have been describing my life.
I needed to hear that today more than I knew. He's been managing to make me feel so guilty for not supporting him, has convinced himself all the bad things that have happened recently are due to me telling lies about him, and had almost convinced me too that it was all my fault.

I've sobbed my way through the last 2 days at work, thanking everything that I've barely had to speak in meetings & haven't needed my camera on, because I had convinced myself that it was all me & that I was doing the wrong thing & that I love him so much, but I'm starting see that these are the manipulation tactics he has always used on me.
I'm still sad that he's chosen to waste his life the way he has & that he'll lose things that he says are precious to him rather than apologise or admit that he has a problem, but they're not my choices, they're his & I have to let go.

I've been clinging to the vain hope that after we divorce we could live apart but remain friends & I could support him to focus on recovery, but I'm starting to see how utterly ridiculous that idea is, & that I just need to leave him to make his own choices while I see if I can claw back a happy life.

@Howdidiendupthere

I’m so sorry to hear about the miscarriage.
It is a hell of a lot to grieve, you are essentially grieving the loss of the life you imagined and hoped you would have, and the loss of the person you knew he once was.
But holding on to that hope will only mean you continue grieving longer if the change doesn’t happen.

@Ebananascroogey
sorry you’re going though this too.
In my experience, the addiction makes the alcoholic extremely selfish.
They appear blind to the impact it has on those that love and care for them.
Either that, or they just don’t care.
Unfortunately, In many cases they would rather lose everything else if it means they can keep their one true love - the alcohol.
But in my personal experience, they will use emotional manipulation to keep you around, feeling responsible for them because you’re the one who’s there to pick up the pieces of the chaos they create. And by doing so, they don’t face any real consequences so have no real reason to change.
I was enabling him without realising it.
Not by providing him with alcohol, but by being the one he could count on to feed him when he lost his jobs and blew all his money on booze, keep a roof over his head etc.
I was ruining my own life trying to save his, while he did nothing to save himself.
And he still isn’t doing anything to save himself even though I’m not there anymore. But that isn’t my weight to carry.

Mine was not as bad as that, @MamaBear81 because he still cared about appearances and was holding down a job - just. But the obsessive checking for bottles, monitoring levels, all that; yep, that was me.

@Ebananascroogey I am sorry this is so painful for you. In a way I am lucky mine killed my love for him because of the way he treated our DC. Grieving still needed to be done, though. This is a genuine bereavement for you. If it feels unmanageable, seek out counselling. I found it very helpful.

@Ebananascroogey they are all the same Sadly. ((Huge hugs))

You can live apart and support them to a certain degree like I do - but there is no recovery for ex dh. He will always buy vodka as soon as gets money

@Howdidiendupthere sorry about the mc

as I said before we all enable them. We don’t reliese it at the time that we do

ex had a wonderful life with dd and me. He was a cock lodger but again didn’t see it at the beginning - till I asked for money to help towards bills dd food etc

Thank you everyone. I think I needed harsh truths & hugs in equal measures.

I was ruining my own life trying to save his, while he did nothing to save himself.
This sums up where we've ended up to a tee. 9 months in he did his first disappearing act, where I worried myself sick for almost a week before he came home. That was the point I should have changed the locks & run for the hills, but instead I believed all his protestations that it was his mental health & he needed help & 12 years later I realise that is 12 ruined years & I saved nothing & nobody.

Work have a counselling service. Once he's gone I will take absolute advantage of that, knowing I can talk freely & start to heal.

@Ebananascroogey
Yep, my ex’s first bender after my daughter was born was when she was only 4 days old. I was still recovering from the birth and he disappeared for 5 days.
Even now he still blames his mental health and claims he isn’t an ‘out of control alcoholic’ .. I don’t know wether he’s trying to convince everyone else or himself.
He’s lost every job he’s ever had, his home, his decent friends (now the only ‘friends’ he’s got are two other alcoholics), his relationship with both me AND our DD, was released from being held on remand for 3 weeks a fortnight ago, has a criminal conviction for DV assault and harassment.. and STILL he is drinking.
But he will make every excuse in the book, and blame everything and anyone he can if it means he can keep denying to himself that he is infact an out of control alcoholic.