Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 6

[pointythings]

A new thread so that the conversations can continue overnight. We have sadly been very active lately, so I thought it best to be proactive.

These threads are for everyone who has an alcoholic in their life: partner/husband/wife, sibling, child, parent. This is a safe space where you can vent and say all the things you can't say out loud in real life.

The people on these threads have all been there or are still on their journey. We will share what we have learned, crack dark jokes and offer a shoulder to cry on. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5515006-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-5?page=40&reply=153683715

@pointythings thanks for the new thread ❤️ and the reply. I’m lying here wide awake beside 2 yo, doubt I’ll sleep a wink.

his mother is the only other person that knows about all this and she messaged to say she seen his car outside the local pub this evening, I have no idea where he plans to stay, if he’s safe etc and it’s eating me up, I feel guilty but I just can’t have him here in that state.

i have no confidence he would would stay sober for an overnight. I would only consider supervised visits as I just cannot trust him. What happens in these situations does anyone know? LG has only just gone 2

Thanks @pointythings for new thread

@Howdidiendupthere I replied on the other one but will repost here

@HowdidiendupthereHonestly. Yes. He won’t change and you need to split.

Even more so with a young child and the fact your dh is a mean shouty drunk. You and she deserves better

ex dh doesn’t see dd alone as I can’t trust him to not drink and at 9 she doesn’t want to be alone with him

so access is always with me there for an hour or two on a Sunday

so don’t worry that you will need to leave dd alone with him.

they will say anything when sober yet their actions speak louder then their words

in your case

so since April so 4mths he says he isn’t drinking but has drank a month later , then another 6w or so drinks when you are away a few days ago and now again today

so 3 ‘blips’ in 4mths.

I was told till dh hits rock bottom he won’t stop drinking. I hoped that me kicking him and saying no more was rock bottom. That he would stop drinking

he drinks even more now as no one to stop /moan at him

he will die from drinking

so yes my advice to you is to end your marriage (I didn’t went to either. No one wants to be divorced and a single parent ) but I promise you life will be better

@Howdidiendupthere - no more walking on eggshells

I didn’t reliese how much I did till I didn’t iyswim

@Howdidiendupthere
I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Your situation sounds very similar to the situation I was in (and am still in, just in a different way now)
My DD is 3, and her dad was/is a binge drinker. Didn’t drink every day. But when he started, he couldn’t stop and would drink until he had made himself too ill to carry on, or he ran out of money/supply. He too would then spend days in bed afterwards then the cycle would start again. He never managed more than two weeks sober.
He said all the same things your DH is saying to you. We were all he wanted, he knows he needs to change and is willing to put in the work etc.
And for years I hoped each time he said it would be the time he meant it. That time never came.
I threw him out, not as punishment but for the sake of our daughter’s wellbeing and my own. It took me a while but after so many broken promises, I came to accept he was never going to change. He’s had the support from myself, his family, professionals (and like your DH, he never stuck with it)
DD was getting older and more aware and I could not have her growing up in such an unstable environment. As her mother, I had to be the responsible parent (because her father couldn’t) and do what was best for her.
Yes I felt guilty, but her father is a grown man. She is a young child who relied solely on me. It was my responsibility to keep her safe above all else.
Your husband is not your responsibility. You can’t sacrifice your own well-being and that of your child for his sake. He isn’t sacrificing his alcohol for either of you. You can’t drain yourself trying to help someone who isn’t helping themselves. You need to look after yourself so that you can be the parent your LG needs, while he is drinking you’re the only one she can rely on.

Regarding the lying - my late DH told me once that he wasn't lying to me but to himself.

One of my sisters is a chocoholic. I talked about DH to her and she admitted to hiding chocolate bar wrappers underneath other stuff in the bin so she could pretend she hadn't eaten it.

@MamaBear81 @Penguinsandspaniels thank u so much for replying. I feel like I know this is it but god do I not want it to be. I really thought he wanted help and wanted to change.

@MamaBear81 sorry your going through this with young dd also. Just wondering what type of visitation does he have with her now?

@Howdidiendupthere

I echo the others. It's time to call it a day. You and LG deserve a home that is peaceful, calm, and absent of fear. Yes lovely, you are broken. We have all been broken by 'our' alcoholic/addict. But we can put ourselves back together and, unlike a broken vase, we can end up even stronger.

My DH and I were married for 37 years and his drinking really wasn't a problem. Like yours, he was always 'a drinker' but then suddenly it went out of control. I tried to stick it out but left after only 4 months he got so bad so fast. Obvs no young children, but even our adult sons have been affected by this.

Remember especially that we didn't cause this, we can't control this, and we can't cure this. But remember that you can care for yourself and LG. Only he can stop himself from drinking and he simply doesn't want to. No matter what he says, he doesn't want to.

At this point, you need to put yourself and LG first and kick him out. If he won't leave, you leave.

And don't 'keep his secret'. I don't mean to post it on SM, but you don't have to cover for him if he's drunk and you can speak the truth when you separate. The only one you may need to shelter is LG.

@Howdidiendupthere
There is no court order but I have always point blank refused to leave him with her unsupervised. Even if he was sober collecting her, there was no guarantee he would stay sober while he had her and that just wasn’t a risk I was willing to take, so I supervised his contact for the most part.
However, in April of this year, he assaulted me outside my own house while I was holding her. He was heavily intoxicated at the time. That was the first time he had ever became physically abusive towards me.
While we were together, he was verbally and emotionally abusive when drunk (unacceptable in front of a child, I did not want her to grow up thinking that was normal). We had been separated for roughly a year when he physically assaulted me.
He was charged, given bail conditions not to contact me, breached those by emailing me multiple times and as a result was also charged with harassment. He pleaded guilty to both, was sentenced in July 9th and was given a community order including 6 months alcohol treatment. I was also given a two year restraining order which states that any contact with me must now go via a solicitor.
So although his criminal conviction doesn’t say he can’t see his child, it is forcing him to go through family court if he wants to, as he isn’t allowed to contact me to arrange it himself, or via a third party.
It’s not recommended to stop all contact completely unless there is evidence of safeguarding concerns.

Re-posting from our old thread:
Welcome @Howdidiendupthere and I am
sorry that you are on the position that you are in. You will find lots of support in this thread.

I didn’t have children with my Ex but he did with his first wife and he has had no contact at all with them for about two years now. This was the process once he started the dramatic spiral post rehab and relapses:
Their mother first required supervised contact with a breathalyser first. However it became clear that Ex began to drink during contact time. Once concerns had been reported a couple of times by contact supervisors, she required an end of contact session breathalyser, once he failed to do this on two occasions she removed contact and offered instead a video call weekly which he rejected in a rage.
separately, the children began reporting anxiety to their teacher about their Dad being strange, that they were seeing him irregularly because he has a problem with drink. A social services referral was made by school. He also had some social services referrals from some
of his erratic A&E trips.
Ex talked a lot about getting a solicitor and going for a child contact order, but ultimately he couldn’t commit to it - maybe he couldn’t be bothered, maybe because he knew that with his record and all the social services referrals that a court would also ask for the same safeguards that their mother did and he just wasn’t going to be able to meet them. Also Ex really likes the additional sob story of the terrible Ex wife who has taken away his children from him. It’s a great addition to his ‘poor me, poor me, poor me another’ routine.

Waves to @MamaBear81. Been a while. Hope you and dd are ok as can be

I take it dh doesn’t make the effort to want to see his dd via court /supervised sessions

@Penguinsandspaniels long story.
When he turned up for his probation pre-sentence report interview, he was too intoxicated to be allowed into the building.
As a result, the sentencing hearing had to be adjourned for 3 weeks, and the judge remanded him for that time so that the report could be completed while he was sober in prison. It finally took place on July 9th.
I was granted a restraining order that only allows contact with me via a solicitor. No third parties.
On Sunday (just past) it had been arranged with his mother that she would have my DD for a couple of hours, with his older daughter.
20 minutes before she was due to collect my DD, she messaged to inform me that his older DD had invited him along and asked if I was ok with this.
I said no, as the restraining order states that any contact with me regarding child matters has to go via a solicitor.
She said she wouldn’t take my DD to see him.
While she had my DD, a video emerged all over social media of my ex heavily intoxicated in a children’s playground, and when confronted by the person recording, he states he is there to see his daughter.
I confronted his mother about this, and she said she had already made the arrangements with him (time and place) before asking me, but that after I had said no, she didn’t follow through and take my DD to see him. But it appears he turned up at the location anyway, and the video clearly shows the intoxicated state he is in while expecting to see his child AFTER being sentenced for an assault that occurred while she was present and he was drunk.

As a result, my ex has now been branded as a “pervert” all over social media for being in a children’s playground with no child, especially given the state he was in at the time.
His older daughter has commented on the video stating that it’s not fair for him to be accused of being a pervert when he was only there waiting for them, but that he shouldn’t have turned up in the state he did, and that he was so drunk he didn’t even notice her and the baby walking away.
This gives me the impression that his mother DID infact take my DD to see him, but left when they arrived and saw he was in no fit state. She is denying this.

Signing in with the right user name.
Thoughts are with all of you who are still battling life with your alcoholics.

I hope it is OK with you to share a bit of good news. I have 6 and a half working days left until I retire, I have an underlying sadness that retirement is not going to be the world I had hoped it was going to be, but I am so excited, and constantly find myself realising I don't have to worry about what my husband is drinking or doing.

Congratulations! I'm sorry it's bittersweet, but I hope you find it in you to take in the freedom of life without your alcoholic. You deserve happiness and fun.

Bloody hell @MamaBear81 thats terrible. It’s so hard that you can’t even trust your DC’s grandparent to safeguard them, though I am aware that previous contact supervisors for my Ex ignored the fact that he was clearly drinking secretly in contact time or was in such an erratic mood that he has been clearly on coccaine the night before.

It was so difficult for his Ex wife. It wasn’t until she had evidence of drinking during contact sessions or had to do the awkward thing of no family supervisors that she felt empowered to remove contact.

@Nogoodusername
his mother has previously told me she’s scared of him when he’s drinking (and I understand why), so considering the fact that she had already made arrangements with him before asking me, she was probably afraid of him kicking off at her if she then cancelled those arrangements with him.
So was trying to keep us both happy, by telling me she wouldn’t take my DD to him, then doing it anyway in the hope he would turn up in a decent state and I would never know any different.
That does not make it acceptable.
Firstly, she shouldn’t have made any arrangements with him prior to checking with me first anyway!
Secondly, I sent her a copy of the restraining order when it was issued, so she was aware of what was in it and that any contact with me regarding child arrangements had to go via a solicitor. Technically she wasn’t even allowed to ask me if she could take my DD to see him.
Thirdly, I cannot prove my DD was taken there because I wasn’t there myself, and his mother is adamant she didn’t take her. But his older DD’s comments on the video indicate that she did, and left when he arrived drunk.
I can’t trust her now, that doubt has been planted. It would probably be better if she admitted to me that she did take her (if that’s the case), not lie to me because she knows she has done something she did not have the right to do, and that I would be extremely unhappy about about it, especially given the state he turned up in.

@AcrossthePond55 and @Nogoodusername thanks for ur advice and experience. When he was out of the house for a week at the start of June, I was devastated but the house was never as calm and peaceful, I’d no constant worry of was he going to arrive home drunk, he did visit to see LG and did stay sober, I had him warned if I so much as suspected alcohol he wouldn’t be seeing her.

@MamaBear81 oh I’m so so sorry it has escalated to all of this for u and ur little girl. I feel so devastated for my LG that she now has to grow up with her daddy like this. I can’t imagine the worry this has brought u and the fact u feel like u can’t even trust grandparents to keep her safe is heartbreaking too. I just know my husbands mother (as much as we get on great and she loves her GD so much) could be capable of something like this thinking she is doing good and feeling sorry for her son if he isn’t seeing our LG.

has anyone found any programs that worked for anyone. I’m deff not holding any hope but I’m just wondering if it is at all possible for someone to turn it around (if they really wanted to of course)

@Howdidiendupthere
it is a very sad situation. When I saw that video and the comments & accusations that were written underneath it, I felt angry and sad at the same time. It’s pitiful to see him in the state he is. Although I’m not in love with him anymore, there was a time I was so it isn’t easy to see how badly he’s declining. And that’s my DD’s father, so obviously I’m devastated for her too.
But I know she is better off without him than having him in her life the way he is at the moment.
It is very possible to turn things around if they want it enough. My stepbrother is an alcoholic and heroin addict, who has now been clean for several years and has managed to stay clean during the loss of both his father and his fiancée.
But if they don’t want it enough, it won’t work. If they’re doing it because they’re given an ultimatum or feeling forced, it won’t work. If they’re doing it just to please others, it won’t work. They have to want it for themselves.
In my ex’s case, he said the right things. Sought treatment on multiple occasions but still never managed to stay sober for more than a fortnight. It took me a long time to accept that he was just telling me what I wanted to hear, and doing the bare minimum by attending a couple of appointments to keep me around. To have someone to sort out the messes he created.
And by doing so, I was actually enabling the behaviour. Showing him that no matter what he did, I’d still be there to fix his chaos despite how many times I told him I wouldn’t be. I didn’t give him any real reason to change.
But when I did eventually throw him out, nothing has improved. If anything his drinking has got worse because there isn’t anyone to ‘nag’ or stop him. And at first I did feel like I had a responsibility to try and help him. But having already done that over and over and over again, with no success, I came to the realisation that you can’t help someone who isn’t willing to help themselves.
You can’t save them, but you can save yourself and your child.

You are right @MamaBear81 , it is so hard for the families. In the end Ex’s first wife removed his family as an acceptable contact supervisor because they were turning a blind eye to his state and his secret drinking during contact sessions they were supervising because they were fearful of his rage if challenged or if they informed their mother. I understand that as someone who was frequently on the end of his verbal abuse. I was always walking on egg shells too. Once the trust is gone though it is gone.

Your post (as always) really resonated with me. Always a much needed reminder of how you cannot make someone or enable someone to give up alcohol. Ex went through a couple of years of doing all the right things on paper - multiple rehab stays, AA, local services, all the different medications, but has never been sober out of rehab longer than 8 weeks and a couple of times didn’t even last the day.

I didn’t save him when I was with him because you can’t save someone else. I just ruined my own life. I saved myself.

Massive congratulations to your step brother on his sobriety!

My ex was released from 3 weeks on remand on July 9th, just under two weeks ago. And has been constantly drunk since. That would have been his perfect opportunity to stay off the booze had he really wanted to - he had been locked up for 3 weeks with no access to alcohol, so by the time he was released there was none left in his system.
Three weeks locked up, being given a domestic abuse conviction and having a restraining order served hasn’t been enough to stop him tipping a bottle of vodka down his neck the moment he left court. And he hasn’t stopped since.
He has already breached his restraining order by emailing me (direct contact) within 8 days of it being issued. I’ve reported it but still waiting for a response.
part of his community order is 6 months alcohol treatment (which won’t work because he doesn’t really want it, it’s court ordered) .. it’s doubtful wether he will even turn up to his first appointment, as he’s in such a drunken haze at the moment he likely doesn’t even know what day it is let alone remember he has an appointment at a certain time on a certain day. If he does by some miracle turn up, it will probably be while drunk.
He is either going to drink himself to death, be seriously hurt because of the public accusations that are being made about him, or doing a proper stretch in prison.

Congratulations!!! You are going to love retirement. As I always say "I worked all my life for this!". I'm typing this as my little dog and I are lying in bed with the TV news on, next to a tray table of hot coffee and an empty plate, having already had breakfast in bed (remember...8 hr time difference!). Breakfast and coffee in bed whilst MNing is an everyday thing since I left DH and I will never tire of it! The only thing missing is my maid 'O'Brian' bringing me my tray every morning!

I was lucky that DH and I had about 14 wonderful retirement years before he spun out of control. But I was looking forward to so many more. So at this point, for you and I both, our retirement years are no longer what we expected them to be. But that doesn't mean they can't be wonderful. Indulge yourself. And find that dream you left behind somewhere along the way and make it reality.

She made a stupid choice and then lied about it, and now she will have to take what's coming to her. Proof or no proof, you have the right to tell her she is no longer a 'trusted caregiver'. Nor is the older DD.

I could have written your post word for word (no minor children though). Truer words were never spoken.

My '1st' alcoholic was my brother. I tore myself to pieces trying to get him sober. It was only when I backed away completely that he actually sought the help he needed, for himself and by himself. He's been sober 11 years.

@Howdidiendupthere

MamaBear81 has hit the nail right on the head. There are as many programs out there as there are stars in the Heavens (both good and bad) but until the alcoholic decides to stop drinking for themselves alone even the best program in the world won't work. And part of that is seeking out and finding the program right for them on their own.

@MamaBear81

My DH has a DUI conviction for which he's not even trying to meet his probation conditions. He now has pending charges of abusing/harassing 911 operators and resisting arrest. He's still drinking and still calling 911. There is nothing I can or will do to mitigate what's probably waiting for him aft 8Aug (date of compliance for DUI) and/or 3Sep (trial for pndg charges).

And I can't count the times he's been released from hospital stays with 3-9 days sobriety or has lost his ATM card and had no access to money for around 10 days. Once he was in a physical rehab facility for 5 weeks and I thought "Surely, this.....". But no. On most of those occasions he had the Uber driver stop at the liquor store on the way home.

There is both anxiety and peace in just waiting for what may happen. Anxiety because I do love him and have pity on him. Peace because I know I've done what I can, it's all up to him now.

@AcrossthePond55 I'm sorry to see ur similar story. I deff have come to the realisation that me supporting/ helping and covering up for him is not the way to go and has only been enabling the behaviour for longer.

Ive told him I'm taking a step back now and what he chooses to do is outside of my control. Of course I hope he’ll choose us and get properly sober but I seriously doubt that’ll be the case.

he has asked me to transfer him a big chunk of our savings as in ‘his half’ but I’ve refused to do this as I know he’ll just drink and possibly gamble it away, who knows.
I assume I’ll need to speak to someone about the legalities of untangling financial assets, having supervised visits (if he even requests to see our lg, he hasn’t mentioned her so again who knows)

he has been sober for 3 months previously, from Christmas to around Easter so he can go stretches of being sober, that’s nearly the scary thing because everything can be going great and then out of nowhere he starts drinking