Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 6

[pointythings]

A new thread so that the conversations can continue overnight. We have sadly been very active lately, so I thought it best to be proactive.

These threads are for everyone who has an alcoholic in their life: partner/husband/wife, sibling, child, parent. This is a safe space where you can vent and say all the things you can't say out loud in real life.

The people on these threads have all been there or are still on their journey. We will share what we have learned, crack dark jokes and offer a shoulder to cry on. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5515006-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-5?page=40&reply=153683715

@Penguinsandspaniels

Is the house in that bad condition ? Are we talking like the hoarder dirty programmes

Worse. Dirty dishes with food waste, discarded beer cans, trash, and worst of all, human feces that he never cleaned up after having uncontrollable diarrhea (sorry if that's TMI) and I know of one urine stain.

Costing thousands sounds terrible

There is not a 'maid service' or regular cleaner who will touch this with a barge pole. It will have to be a service that cleans up after fires, disasters, and murder scenes (so used to dealing with biological 'stuff'). Those services are usually at least 3-5x what a regular cleaner/maid service would charge. The RE agent I spoke to said she has such a firm she uses, so I may end up calling her to get their details.

does he have the money to pay for a total clean

I think he has enough, depending on the cost, but his savings will take a big hit.

The big problem will be talking him into it. If he delays his starting to drink maybe I can get it done. Once he starts drinking he lies that he's cleaned it up (after I send him pictures). Or he says it 'looks the same' as when I left.

I'm going to 'skip over' the fact that I'm not paying for any of it when I talk to him. At the most, I'd be willing to pay for 1/4 of the carpet cleaning since it was needed and I was going to schedule it when I left.

did you find out how he did such a huge wound

He's sticking to his story about 'falling against the workbench'. He admitted to me that he has no idea how he did it.

Now, I've put together my 'Vera Stanhope' skills as well as my remaining 'ancient medical knowledge' (left nursing school with 1 semester to go in order to make a stupid 1st marriage) and in my nonprofessional opinion from the pictures I've seen, I think it actually was a either a decubitus ulcer that became infected or a boil that became seriously infected and burst. I'm leaning towards the former due to the fact that he spent probably 95% of his time sitting/lying in a recliner and his personal hygiene was nonexistent. I can't think of anything else and any kind of 'cut' wound would have required stitches to stop bleeding. But we'll never know since the doctors weren't able to pin it down by the looks of the wound.

I know you and the others 'get it', but I'm just so weary of it all. Weary, yet I can't completely abandon him.

I totally get it. Just sorry your still tied in with the house

yes guess need a specialist firm to deal with it 🤮

@Penguinsandspaniels

Me too, sigh.

Sometimes I wonder if once the house gets sold and he gets settled wherever he's going to be if this invisible thread that seems to bind me to him will 'snap' and I'll be truly free. I doubt it will. But I think it will be easier for me to maintain a bit more distance than I have now.

Dipping in as I've been considering going to Al Anon meetings but my schedule is so busy with teenage DC and shift work I haven't managed to yet.
I don't live with my partner but his drinking and mental health have spiralled over the last few months. He's fiercely independent and doesn't like being told what to do or advised in any way but ended up in such a state he got a taxi to my house (100 miles away) to be looked after for a few days.
Ironically part of the mental health spiral was anxiety about his health.
Neither of us use the word alcoholic and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that he is.

@naturalbaby acceptance is so very hard. I feel for you, we've all been there and once you call the beast by its name you can't go back to ignoring it.

What do you feel the future looks like for you now? You don't live together, which helps, but clearly he makes demands on your time and your energy.

@naturalbaby I am going to sound a hard hearted bitch here, but alcoholics never like being told what to do. It goes with the territory and makes them a nightmare to deal with, as they won't listen to you or to medical professionals when you tell him drink is the problem and he should stop. You don't live with him and you have teenagers who need you more than he does -he's a grown man making bad choices and you don't need extra drama in your life. Walk away.

@naturalbaby. Be grateful you don’t live with him and assume not dad to your kids - escape now while you can

if he wants you that bad he will stop drinking

sadly most on here love the booze more than they love their families

@naturalbaby

I'm going to have to agree with @CharlotteByrde ,who doesn't sound like a hard hearted bitch, but a 'truth teller'.

One of the first things you learn at AlAnon is the three Cs;

"I didn't cause it"
"I can't control it"
"I can't cure it"

A fourth C is often added:

"I can take care of myself"

You cannot help him. And by taking him in you are actually enabling him.

My 'first alcoholic' was my brother. I was an enabler, a 'rescuer'. It was only after I stopped rescuing him and told him "I will not have anything to do with you when you are drinking. Do not call me, do not come to my house" did he finally get sober. It wasn't immediately, it took some tries and some relapses but he's now been sober 11 years and living a wonderful life. Right now he's in South America visiting some old friends and sending me wonderful pictures. He and I are planning a trip to the UK in a few years. We are both 'free'; him from alcohol and me from being an enabler.

My 'second' is my estranged DH, married 38 years. His drinking spun out of control 19 mos ago. I tried to curb his drinking, I failed. I tried to 'carve out my own life' whilst living with him in our marital home, I failed. I left 15 months ago after his verbal and emotional abuse escalated to the point where I was escorted out by the police as he would not let me leave. I've obtained a legal separation and he's still drinking and in our house. Our marital home is a disgusting mess and he is falling apart, physically and mentally. But he is doing this to himself and there is nothing I can do to stop him.

Don't do what I did, try and try and end up with a broken heart. I know you love him. But love is not enough. You can love someone to distraction but that does not mean they are right or healthy for you. Trust me, I know. I will love my esDH until the day one of us dies, but I will never live with him again. There has just been too much pain, and too much lying. My trust is broken, along with my heart.

Let him go. I know it feels like it will (figuratively) 'kill you' to walk away, but in order for you and your teen DC to thrive and for him to hit rock bottom and get the help he needs, you simply must. Tell him you are through and he needs to get help. Tell him not to contact you and that if he shows up at your home you will not let him in. And follow through.

AlAnon was a perfect fit for me. I'm in the US and they have both in person and online meetings, I'm sure it's similar in the UK. There is also an organization called SMART friends and family, they are mostly online. Make it a priority, I'm sure your teens will understand if you need an hour or so online for a meeting.

You can do this. Yes, you will wobble and wonder if you did the right thing, but in the end you'll know it was the right thing.

Where as @AcrossthePond55 the one still loves her ex

i def don’t ! He has killed any love I had for him with his behaviour and lies

Thankyou for the reality check.
I have been told I'm enabling him and I know I step in and try to rescue him - he's fiercely independent but being told 'I need you, you calm my brain' hit hard.
This last week felt like rock bottom but I know he's been lower in the past, and I know he has a long and difficult history with alcohol - he's mentioned rehab in the past very briefly.

Apart from this our relationship is in a really good place - he talks about a future with me, supporting me with parenting dc and helping me at home... The good bits are really good and I we have a lot of fun together - I never laughed much when I was with my exH but now I laugh in almost every conversation with this guy.

We had good times. Many good years of love and laughter but that disappears @naturalbaby. Don’t be sucked in. You don’t need to be in contact with him

you have no links like I do as he’s dd dad

Realistically @naturalbaby, your relationship is not in a good place. He is an alcoholic of long standing which means you will always come 2nd to alcohol. Talking about future plans is meaningless if he is still drinking so heavily. As @Penguinsandspaniels says, the good times will disappear if he keeps drinking. My DH made me laugh often too, but looking back, it was a way of avoiding serious conversations and changing the subject.

Also, sorry again for being so blunt, but he does not need you. He is a grown man. You do not calm his brain. His thinking is distorted by alcohol and stopping drinking is the only thing that will sort out his brain. You are not responsible for whether he drinks or not. You cannot save him and if you are waiting for rock bottom, you could be hanging on for him to die. Your teenager does not need this drama in their life. Believe me, I have been there.

@naturalbaby

I have been told I'm enabling him and I know I step in and try to rescue him

Yes, you are. And in actuality you are DISabling him by doing so. This is an off the wall comparison but if you kept parking in a no parking zone but someone else always paid your tickets, would you stop? Probably not. But if you had to pay fine after fine after fine, chances are you'd stop parking where you aren't allowed to.

- he's fiercely independent but being told 'I need you, you calm my brain' hit hard

Yes, it gives you a dopamine hit AND triggers guilt. Because at this point you are probably a bit 'addicted' to rescuing him. It makes us feel good, useful, and loved when we bail someone out. But it's momentary, because eventually they'll spit in our eye and do the same thing all over again.

and I know he has a long and difficult history with alcohol - he's mentioned rehab in the past very briefly.

He's told you who he is. Now it's time for you to believe him.

Apart from this our relationship is in a really good place - he talks about a future with me, supporting me with parenting dc and helping me at home... The good bits are really good and I we have a lot of fun together

Lovely, my DH and I were married for 38 years. 37 of them were pretty damned fantastic. We had good jobs and raised two wonderful boys. And we'd shared many years together, both before and after retirement, as RVers. My God, the wonderful and fantastic things we shared together on those trips! I can live on those memories for the rest of my life.

But none of that, no fun, no laughs, no shared joys and no shared troubles, justifies the hell he put me through in the last 19 months. NOTHING. If I had stayed I would have been ruined emotionally, mentally, and financially.

Drop the rope, sweetheart. Or else you'll find yourself being choked to death (figuratively) by it.

I agree with this. By saying 'you calm my brain' he is putting the burden of his sobriety or otherwise on you and that is not acceptable. It's the manipulative behaviour of the addict coming out.

I know we all sound harsh but we have been there / where you are now and it doesn’t get any better sad to say

we can see it clearly but many is us were the same as you. Hoping and wishing that they would stop drinking. That maybe a few drinks is ok

it’s not. It’s never ok and never a few drinks

I need a harsh reality check. My therapist sometimes asks if I'm punishing myself or challenging myself to see how much I can deal with.

I'm not sure how to deal with his drinking because withdrawing and leaving him to suffer alone felt cruel and I couldn't do it.
Sometimes I try and figure out how many units he drinks a week and the numbers are eye watering.

@naturalbaby you are not leaving him to suffer alone. He might stop drinking or he might not. That is entirely his choice to make. It is not cruel to step away and let him deal with the consequences of his own choices. It is sensible, because otherwise you risk being dragged into all the drama. Your teen needs you. This man does not.

You aren't abandoning him, @naturalbaby . You're protecting yourself and learning you are powerless against his addiction. With of those things are hard to learn. Keep posting, we have all the tough love you need.

Think I worked out it was over 200 in a week

vodka 750 is 30 x 7 one a day so 210 averagely. When has money

@naturalbaby

I need a harsh reality check.

Then you've definitely come to the right place! We're very good at giving each other reality checks. And equally good at (virtual)hugs and validation.

I'm not sure how to deal with his drinking because withdrawing and leaving him to suffer alone felt cruel and I couldn't do it.

I felt the same way with my brother. But the saying "Cruel to be kind" is real and valid in this situation. He must suffer and he must suffer alone otherwise he'll never turn to those who can actually help him. And one of those people is not you.

The other thing is that when you combine drinking with 'self medicating' for a mental illness, the chances of ever getting sober drop drastically.

Sometimes I try and figure out how many units he drinks a week and the numbers are eye watering.

Don't bother. It won't make a difference to anything just because you put a number to it.

I'm going to repeat something that I've probably posted 1000 times. The wise words of Dr Maya Angelou; "You did then what you knew how to do. Now that you know better, you'll do better". And now you do know better. Contact AlAnon or SMART, they can help you do better. So will we.

I was trying to count units as part of a reality check for myself.
I lost track on the day I saw an empty bottle of vodka before lunchtime - he was drinking through the night and all morning to "take the edge off" uncontrolled ADHD+anxiety+sleep deprivation.
I've contacted Al Anon but with shift work and half term I've not made it to the nearest meeting so I need to look into that again.

Look into the online meetings, maybe that would fit your schedule more. I know here (US) they have them as late as 8pm or as early as 8 am.

Please do check out AL-Anon.
I was encouraged to do so by folk here. I’m stronger and better for it, and I haven’t been on this thread for much more than two months.
you do learn how to drop the rope, protect yourself, and stop thinking you can’t stand on your own two feet.

(I’ve still a long way to go, but I’m clearer minded and more focused than I have been in nearly a decade.)

Both Al-Anon and SMART have online meetings.