Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 6

[pointythings]

A new thread so that the conversations can continue overnight. We have sadly been very active lately, so I thought it best to be proactive.

These threads are for everyone who has an alcoholic in their life: partner/husband/wife, sibling, child, parent. This is a safe space where you can vent and say all the things you can't say out loud in real life.

The people on these threads have all been there or are still on their journey. We will share what we have learned, crack dark jokes and offer a shoulder to cry on. Welcome to the club nobody wants to be in.

Link to previous thread here: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5515006-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-5?page=40&reply=153683715

@Penguinsandspaniels if he turns up again and is causing a disturbance, banging on the door or shouting etc, you can definitely call the police.

I will. In his defence he only rang me and I said we were out. Which he knew as no car there

and he spoke to neighbours

but wasn’t aggressive. Actually cried at neighbors saying he loved me and he had fucked it up and wish things were different

just as long as he doesn’t feel the need to whizz up every now and again ……

@Penguinsandspaniels

This is what I meant when I mentioned calling the police. If he creates a disturbance or won't leave.

Actually cried at neighbors saying he loved me and he had fucked it up and wish things were different........just as long as he doesn’t feel the need to whizz up every now and again

Hopefully he won't be too much of an annoyance. They're just so damned unpredictable. Since your neighbours already know 'how he is' I guess I could shrug off him crying to them as long as they didn't complain about it to me. It's just another stress that you don't need.

My neighbours are fantastic totally supported me when he was drinking and was there with me after I kicked him out

They haven’t seen him for about a year so they were shocked at his appearance wasn’t even sure it was him at first

They definitely didn’t moan to me. They’re just more supportive and just said they didn’t let him on the doorstep and when he started going on about my non-existent boyfriend to them they just shut him down and just said we don’t know anything about penguins relationships but you two aren’t together anymore so she has found herself a nice young man then fair enough

So after all my ex’s bullshit with his prescription screenshots etc he came up with a plan to have our son tomorrow for a few hours , saying he’d drive so I know he wouldn’t be drinking plus OF COURSE he’s not drinking anyway due to this new medication. He even suggested I breathalyse him (which I was planning on anyway)
well anyway my son said he didn’t want to see him , he said he would ring 5pm on Wednesday after we’d spoken that lunch time about it to speak to our son .
5pm comes around and son refuses to speak to his dad so I don’t force anything .
as soon as his dad starts speaking to me on the phone I can instantly tell that this man is 3 sheets to the fucking wind! I honestly do not know why it continues to surprise me!
he has repeatedly told me he can’t afford to take me to court to which I just respond ‘that’s not my problem’

@TheThingOnTheIce they think we're as stupid as the alcohol has made them. They really believe we cannot tell - when in fact we have learned ALL their tells over the years. Mine was exactly the same, as was my mum.

Eugh yes it’s so true. I always remember my mother getting increasing drunk when I visited one afternoon. She kept going in the kitchen and getting a ‘Pepsi’
i was getting pissed off so I just blurted out ‘you’re drunk!’ To which she repelled she hadn’t touched a drop all day. When she went to the toilet I sniffed her glass and it was very much Pepsi … and Bacardi

I can instantly tell that this man is 3 sheets to the fucking wind! I honestly do not know why it continues to surprise me!

Because we have believed them and believed IN them for so many years, it's just our default reaction. And because of that stupid thing called 'hope'. It seems as if it just won't die no matter how hard we stomp on it. It's taken me over a year to really have my reaction to anything he says be 'That's a lie'. And whilst the hope is probably 99.9% dead there is still a split second where it exists. But at least I don't have to stomp it out anymore, it dies on its own almost immediately. Be patient with yourself and don't be critical of those emotions. They'll be gone eventually.

And as @pointythings said "they think we're as stupid as the alcohol has made them". And many times they actually do believe the lies. Alcohol doesn't just make them stupid, it creates a HUGE amount of self-delusion. When DH tells me "I'll never drink again" he truly believes it. I don't believe it anymore but I don't bother to argue about it anymore. And I don't get angry anymore when he lies, because chances are, he believes what he's saying.

sorry to hear that @TheThingOnTheIce. So standard for addicts and yet so shocking at the same time. I could never quite get over the fact that Ex’s response to loss of contact with his girls was to take up a coke addiction again on top of the alcohol one. Or when he knew he had them the next day and so would need to provide a breathalyser that he would hammer himself overnight knowing full well he wouldn’t clear that by the next day. But then cry on to everyone about how much he missed them…

Self delusion is massive, it’s true. Everything Ex lost one by one he would blame for why he couldn’t get sober, but he lost those things through addiction so clearly addiction preceded the loss. I used to try and plea, negotiate, whatever, in the hope that he would see the truth and therefore pull his socks up. Nope. The best thing I ever did was finally force myself to leave him to it - no more persuading, no more explaining, no more justifying. It’s a waste of precious breath.

@TheThingOnTheIce I often tbh m they think we are stupid. Ffs is so obvious they are drinking yet they deny it

as @pointythings Says they honestly believe what they tell us

or more they forget the lies they say to people. But esp over drunk

ex can be I haven’t had a drink for a week yet yesterday he was seen done the local park slugging out of a vodka bottle

The delusion can affect the alcoholic's relatives too. "He would stop drinking if he had you and the children back". Right, that worked like a charm when we were actually living with him.

My mum did that well (but then she was also an alcoholic): 'Maybe if you were nicer to him, he wouldn't drink so much'. 🙄

Oh it’s our fault they drink

The thing to remember is that for every lie they tell us about their drinking they've told themselves a hundred. It's nothing personal, it's just that lying about their drinking is an automatic defence mechanism to themselves and to others.

I remember once my ex insisted that she hadn't been drinking even though she could barely stand up straight. When I showed her the wine glass with the dregs of wine at the bottom and her lipstick on the edge of the glass she then said "ok, I've had a drink, but I haven't been drinking"

@HowardTJMoon the self-deception is a survival mechanism for their addiction. My mother ordered a case of shitty cheap vodka, then when her care worker came by and saw it and asked, she said it was for my sister when she visited.

My sister does not drink. At. All.

But my mother had convinced herself.

It’s the lies though that destroy any hope

Oh, absolutely. The lies are corrosive to relationships. But they're not lying to you because they think that you, specifically, are stupid. They're lying because they're alcoholics.

Drinking and then lying about it is just what alcoholics do.

“Drinking and then lying about it is just what alcoholics do.”

Do you not think this is just yet another example of how alcoholics get away with it though ?
Because we make excuses saying “that’s just what alcoholics do”. It takes away all responsibility from them.

My ex rang yesterday hoping to still see our son
he sounded totally sober this time
when he’s sober I actually end up feeling sorry for him
he claims he has no money to take me to court. If this was me and I couldn’t see my son I would sell my house. I’d sell a kidney. Nothing else matters to me above my son .

I think it depends on how you react.

Lying IS universally 'what they do'. Accepting that as a truth is one thing and can save us a lot of heartache. Accepting it as an excuse is quite different and will eventually break our hearts.

I accept that my DH lies about his drinking, because that is the truth. It's one of the reasons I left him. But I certainly don't excuse his lies or treat him as if he isn't responsible for his drinking, or for his lies about it.

I've found that I can 'feel sorry' for DH and still know that he brought it on himself and that I don't need to do any 'fixing'. I guess it's the difference between pity and sympathy. I feel pity for him, but certainly no sympathy.

If I had young children I think I'd feel so much anger that it would be hard to feel either pity or sympathy.

As for me, life goes on. I've been contacted by the Public Defenders on both of his legal cases and have agreed to help them. It's not a huge deal and I don't mind doing it, it's just getting DH to make a phone call and getting copies of his admission papers to prove to the judge he didn't 'abscond' and not show up for the hearing last Friday.

They can't tell me much due to privacy laws, but I guess there has been some discussion about 'competency proceedings' although they won't say more than that. I hope that happens as I think it could help me immensely as far as the sale of the house goes.

On that front I have had a RE agent in for a valuation and was very pleasantly surprised. Even if I take away 30% of what she estimated (because they overestimate to get your business) I am still hopeful. Going to get a 2nd evaluation though. The obstacle will, of course, being getting him to agree to a sale. I did 'gently' raise the issue with him, but he went from it being a good idea to absolutely no way. I do have an order to sell but (think I've mentioned before) that if he refuses to cooperate it means another expensive court battle to force the sale and likely evict him. I'd win, but at what cost?

This really resonates with me.

But drinking and then lying about it really is just what alcoholics do. Getting angry about it won't change that nor will thinking that they're somehow getting away with something. But, if you really take it to heart then it frees you from the hope that if you try hard enough one day you'll get them to admit the truth and so realise they should stop drinking. It frees you from the fear that there's something wrong with you when they lie to your face so easily. It frees you from having yet another pointless conversation and/or argument about whether or not they've been drinking or how much they've actually drunk.

No matter what you say or how you say it they're going to lie to you so why bother even asking? If you suspect they've been drinking then just go ahead and assume you're right - you almost certainly are - and move on with your day with that in mind. Talking about it with them is a waste of your time and emotional energy. Just let go.