Support group for those affected by someone else's drinking thread 5

[pointythings]

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/alcohol_support/5473399-support-group-for-those-affected-by-someone-elses-drinking-thread-4?page=5

A new thread, because the old one is full - link to previous thread above.

These threads are a safe place for anyone who has an alcoholic in their lives. You can ask for help, you can vent, you can say whatever you need to without judgement. We will listen and support you.

@Ebananascroogey

Holding out my hand to you.

Are you safe? Do you have somewhere to go or will he leave the home? And you don't have to answer this, buy why on Earth did his son drop him off at a liquor store??? Again, you don't have to answer that.

In my situation, that moment came out of the blue. Not that shit hadn't been happening, but I'd made up my mind to just 'survive it' and carry on. But one day, a voice said "You don't have to put up with this, leave". And I did, escorted out by a deputy.

Grieve what you've lost. Find peace in the fact that you have DSS, DDIL & the grands to 'carry you' for a bit whilst you find your footing.

You'll be OK. Give yourself grace, peace, and time.

Of course you can have a handhold. I am so sorry that you've had to learn the hard way - and I really hope that this has crossed a line for you to the point where you can now act, get yourself free of him and have the lovely life you deserve with the rest of your family. However hard it gets, we will be here listening and supporting.

Glad dh went @Beachbeach. We are all here for you - whether he stays sober or drinks. You are the important one

Squeezes with a big hug

what dh did was inexcusable and thankfully dg are unharmed

Yes you can have a wonderful life with others in your family but doesn’t stop you grieving the life you should have had with dh

i still at times think what has he done when pics come up on timehop of when life was good years ago

you said ds dropped dh at an off license ? Why on earth did he do that

does your son think there isn’t an issue

and where your step son and dil are supportive

@Ebananascroogey welcome back. Sorry it has reached crisis point. When an alcoholic is putting his need for drink before his children or grandchildren's safety, that's not something your relationship can recover from. It's over, and we will be here if you need us during the next steps.

@Ebananascroogey I’m so sorry this has happened, here for you and always listening (even when I can’t give any helpful advice). You’ve got this… and we’ve got you xx
Breathe and keep breathing until you find some calm in the chaos, no one in your situation can do more than that 💐

Hello. I’ve been a long time lurker on these threads reading everyone’s stories and struggles taking comfort I wasn’t the only one dealing with an alcoholic in the family. Mine was my brother. My big brother who I loved dearly. He battled his addiction for the last 6 years, the last 3 have been a particularly difficult time. Multiple detoxes in hospital, rehab, near death accidents, many many hours of drunken emotional calls. He was found dead, alone this week. I’m devastated and racked with guilt that I could/should have done more for him. Alcoholism is truly awful, for both the addict and their families. I’m taking comfort that he’s now at peace 💔

@Shinebrightb I am so very sorry that you have lost your brother in this way. But please, please, please take some steps to move away from blaming yourself. The people on here, myself included, who have lived with alcoholics often for many years know the truth: the only person who can save an alcoholic is the alcoholic themselves. Read up on the three Cs: You didn't Cause it, you can't Cure it, you can't Control it. Whatever you did, it was enough. Whatever you didn't do, that was to protect yourself. Nobody has to set themselves on fire to keep someone else warm.

You're in the acutely painful phase of major bereavement. It's hard, it's sad, it hurts. Everything you feel is valid - but there will come a point when those thoughts of self blame will require challenge. If you feel that time is not resolving them, consider looking for some professional help. People who lose an addict in their life often have to deal with complex bereavement, and that is something you should not try to carry alone.

My deepest condolences for your loss,

My 'first' alcoholic was my older brother, an alcoholic for over 30 years. I enabled and enabled and tried to 'fix him' for years. It did no good and impacted my relationships with others I loved and affected my own peace of mind. Eventually I learned and accepted that the best thing I could do for him was to 'step away'. So I did. I stopped 'interfering' in his drinking, stopped lecturing, stopped dropping and picking him up from rehabs. I simply said "I want nothing to do with you when you are drinking". And I stuck to that resolve. 11 years ago he found sobriety, so my brother's story has a happier ending than yours, but even if he had died due to his drinking I would have still believed I did the right thing.

Please, please don't feel guilty. There was nothing you could have done or said that would have changed this outcome. The decision to drink is 100% 'our' alcoholic's, and so is the responsibility for the outcome of that decision. We are nothing by bystanders on their roads to disaster. We'd have better luck trying to stand on the tracks and try to stop a runaway train from derailing. The end result of that would be our own destruction as well as the train's.

My 'current' alcoholic is my esDH (estranged DH). I am taking the same stance. His decisions are up to him, I won't stand in his way. I've accepted that if/when he dies as a result of those decisions, it will in no way be my fault.

I wish you peace. And we'll always be here if you need us, even though he's gone now. The 'traces' of pain they leave behind don't leave us. We just learn to live with them.

@Shinebrightb I am so sorry for your loss.

Thank you everyone for your handholds last night. I didn't think I would sleep, but I actually slept for the longest time. I feel awful for it today & much more tearful, but I think this is my body processing years of living with waiting for the next carry on.

To answer some questions.
He's left & left his keys so there will be no coming back without having to knock. This is what he does when he is really drunk. My DSS was going to drop him off at the in-laws as he said he was going to stay there, but as soon as they got to the nearest booze shop he demanded to be let out. He left in just a t-shirt & shorts & hasn't turned up at the in-laws so god knows where he's been all night.
This is where I would normally be out frantically looking for him, but not this time. He's a grown man & can make his own choices.

I dont know what i'll do if he decides he wants to come home. I know I can't let him, even short term because he'll just stay & i'll just be even unhappiness. I guess i'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

@Ebananascroogey

I dont know what i'll do if he decides he wants to come home. I know I can't let him, even short term because he'll just stay & i'll just be even unhappiness. I guess i'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

You may want to take some legal advice if you're serious about not letting him in the door. Legally if it's a jointly owned home, in the UK you can't 'lock him out'. Same for me here in the US, but I was only too glad to be the one that left that house. I've always hated it (long story).

I'm not saying you should let him in, if he'll just 'go away' without a fight, good! I'm just saying that if he wants to make a stink (ie call the police) you'll have to let him in.

Also, if you've really had enough, good legal advice as to what divorce may mean to you will be invaluable. It doesn't mean you have to 'do anything', just that you're educating yourself 'for the future'.

@AcrossthePond55

Thank you. You're right about having to let him in, I guess I need a way to cope if that happens. I got some legal advice a few months back. Thankfully I was the only one with assets when we married, so although i'll have to give him something it won't be half & i should be able to manage it without losing my home.
Im thinking of filing for divorce today, in the hope that he gets upset that I've dared to do it & won't come back for that reason. It's just so hard to stay that cold when there is this little teeny part of me that wants to worry myself sick & try & fix him, even though I know I cant.

I ended up filing for a legal separation rather than a divorce (USA state, better for me financially long term). The main reason I 'got legal' was to preserve my financial security.

We'd been married 37 years (now 38) and everything was joint and we're in a community property state. The separation legally divided everything up into separate 'sole property and severed the joint tenancy on our house so my half is 'untouchable', just like a divorce would have but we remain married legally. So I now have my own assets + a separate half of the house, awarded/confirmed to me, that he can't touch nor can it be affected by anything stupid he does. I know he drives drunk, on a suspended license, in an unregistered vehicle. And I can (and have) set up a trust for my assets to go to my adults sons 'in the fullness of time' and named them as my medical and financial POAs. Getting legal was the smartest thing I did.

It's just so hard to stay that cold when there is this little teeny part of me that wants to worry myself sick & try & fix him, even though I know I cant.

All I can say is to repeat that advice given to us on airplanes; "Put your own mask on first". Take care of yourself and your future. You can still 'worry' but must accept that you can't 'fix him'.

Check out AlAnon or SMART friends and family groups. I found AlAnon to be very helpful, not just information-wise but sitting in a room of people who were on the same journey or had come out the other end all flags flying (if some maybe a bit tattered) was really helpful.

I’m so sorry for your loss @Shinebrightb. You could not and should not have done more for him. The only person that is able to save an addict from addiction and also death as a result
of addiction is themselves. All we do, in the months and years before we accept the reality that we cannot save our addicted love one, is destroy ourselves. No matter what we do, what support we give, it just does not turn the tide of their addiction. We cannot create the conditions in which sobriety becomes possible. That is on their heads/ brains and their actions.

I left my Ex a year ago after two absolutely hideous years of addiction spiral, which followed a long period of functioning alcoholism. He’s still alive a year on but physically damaged and his mental capacity is shot to pieces. I will feel all the emotions that you are feeling now when the inevitable happens, I am sure. But there is honestly no choice but to walk away and set boundaries with addiction. I am sure that you, like all of us here, will have done far more for your brother than was healthy for you to do.

it’s a complex bereavement. Sending you love and hugs xxxx

@Shinebrightb I am so sorry for your loss. My DH was found dead too, and while I was very sad, I was also angry with him for wasting his precious life and for damaging mine and our children's. And I was relieved that his suffering, and ours, was over. It is a complex and heavy set of emotions. Many alcoholics die alone, because of the the things you list-"the multiple detoxes in hospital, rehab, near death accidents, many many hours of drunken emotional calls". When the realisation comes that no matter how much we plead, no matter how much we wish they'd stop, they will keep drinking and keep damaging themselves and others, stepping away becomes the sane option. There was nothing I could do to save my DH and nothing you could have done to change what happened to your brother.

Thank you everyone for your kind message of support. Xxx ❤️

Today is a hard day. I had to come out the house & run some errands & I convinced myself I could see him around every corner.
I just feel like I should be doing something (even though the rational part of me knows I shouldn't) & I think it's the helplessness that makes me tearful.
I have to keep reminding myself the grandkids were also helpless when he come to risk their lives so why should I care about him!
There's some online Smart meetings tomorrow so I think i will take your advice @AcrossthePond55 & attend one.

@Shinebrightbso sorry about your brother - you could have not done more and yes you have to think he is at peace now 🌸

the only person who could have done more is your brother

there is only so much we the family /spouse can do as @pointythings
says

@Ebananascroogey I was the one with the assets. House was mine. I kicked dh out. And I insisted on a clean break as he would piss it up the wall

he was all mouth and said take me for everything I had but in the end he signed and got nothing

so it can happen

i did it with a. Online company. Once you start with solicitors 1) gets costly 2) they start insisting they need half

Also @Ebananascroogey that how I felt 2yrs ago. I don’t now . Ex has killed any love at all I ever felt for him. With his lies and drinking

@Penguinsandspaniels thank you. I'd love to think he'd be that reasonable I suspect not, but im hoping his head will be so turned by the prospect of enough money to stay in a hotel & neck vodka till he dies that he'll take much less than he might otherwise get.
I also know you're right about moving past this im already excited for future things that wouldn't have been possible if we stay together, I just need to grieve a little bit more first.

Well, it was a humdinger of a 4th of July. DH called EMS FOUR times yesterday starting early in the morning. Yep, four, with 3 resulting trips to the ER with 2 of them having him get home within a couple hours The final time (around 4 in the afternoon) resulted in the addition of 2 sheriff's deputies and the MH crisis team as responders. How do I know? Well Ring of course plus the MH team 'roped me in' with a phone call. They started with the usual trying to get me 'involved' in his care but I shut that down, fast.

So their bigger issue, besides the usual waste of resources, was that yesterday was 4th of July and they were short staffed and (naturally) expected higher than usual calls. The 4th can be pretty rowdy! So I joined in their conversation as far as lecturing him that because he keeps calling someone with a real emergency may not get the care they need, blah blah blah. May as well talk to a brick wall. Upshot, he was taken to the ER again whether he wanted to go or not. I think part of it was to 'house him' for the night so he didn't disrupt emergency services as he wasn't discharged until early this morning. Unfortunate for ER personnel but I understand why EMS would want to do that.

It's too bad they've apparently done away with old fashioned 'drunk tanks', where they'd just take habitual drunks to 'sleep it off'.

Other than that, the dog and I had a lovely day.

@AcrossthePond55 you sound so incredibly kind and patient. It comes across in all your posts. I really admire the way you are keeping firm boundaries. You are so strong.

Seems crazy they keeping taking /accepting him

@Thefellowship

Gee, thanks. That's very kind of you to say. Sometimes I don't feel very kind and patient with him and when I read what I've posted I think "Gee, you sound like a real bitch mean". I'm glad it doesn't always come across that way. Keeping boundaries is hard for me because I do still love him, always will. But I know that what my heart says to do must be overruled by my head for both our sakes. I'm a work in progress. He's a work that's currently and possibly permanently stalled.

@Penguinsandspaniels

They have no choice, it's the law. No one can be turned away from any ER in my state. The law states that anyone who presents at an ER must be triaged and unless they are perfectly healthy with no detectable mental or physical illness or injury, they must be either stabilized and transferred or treated and then admitted or discharged. I don't always know what he tells them to get put in the ambulance, but once he's at the ER he can't be discharged drunk even if there's no obvious illness or injury. They have to keep him until he's legally sober. There are two hospitals equidistant from the house so sometimes he goes to one, sometimes the other. Both are covered by his insurance since he has a PPO and they're preferred providers.

In the UK, can A&E just tell someone "No, go home" before they triage them, especially if they arrive by ambulance?