Advise please

[Catvsworld]

Hi We are with a agncey

We would like to change our child's name less than 100 children have been born in the U.K. With the name

Also sw admitted that BM had been Facebook stalking siblings

Our sw has told us that though the LA may kick up a stink they can't actually stop us putting the new name on the AO

Is this correct we want to put the old name as the middle name and the new name first

Why exactly are we all persecuting you for no reason in this little fantasy you've constructed here? You had the same problem in your last incarnation - it's going to keep happening as long as you keep coming here with your obvious dislike of adopters and telling us all how it should be.

Is it actually serving you well at all? Rhetorical question...

Pockets
"Why exactly are we all persecuting you for no reason" I don't feel persecuted.

"in this little fantasy you've constructed" I was complaining about having to keep repeating myself. It wasn't a fantasy.

"You had the same problem in your last incarnation" if you are saying that in a previous incarnation I have said something inflammatory or goady or trollish then you are wrong
"it's going to keep happening as long as you keep coming here with your obvious dislike of adopters and telling us all how it should be" I don't agree with some of the things some of the adopters say. I think some of the adopters who post in this section sound like they are doing a wonderful job. I don't like or dislike anyone because I don't get to see the full picture. I think there is a clique of adopters who post in this section who can be extremely mean to people outside the clique (not just me). I will contribute to threads in this section when I think I can help or if I read something which I fundamentally disagree with.

Clique?

You own the fucking clique tldr. The clique is your bitch.

HTH

jellyfish, you are not the first person to make that allegation, so I have to take it seriously. I am bemused by it, though. I'm a stalwart of these boards, so probably in the 'clique' (though have just realised that as I recently name-changed, no-one knows who the jeff I am - expecting a cell visit from tldr any minute to straighten me aaht). I really don't see this bullying of people who are outside the clique. I DO see some tough talking on occasion - I've been on the receiving end myself a couple of times. I'm a thick-skinned bint, though it was easier to take because I've received loads of warmth and support from those same people over the years. I also think the experience of adoptive parenting can toughen people up a bit - I suspect you see the same on the SN boards - and then add to that this board has often attracted posters who only seem to be here in order to harass and abuse us. But still.... I don't get it.

I know who you are Rachel. I am all-knowing.

It's been 5 days shy of a year since we were last told we were clique.

Will someone please check the spreadsheet and let me know what's what ?

I think MN Adoption Royalty has just been born Kristina. You're in.

We nearly made it a year?

Curse you cruel world!

I prefer "tribe" if we're going to get picky...

Are we cliquiest in May?

Tribiest, Narnia. Must be the pollen.

< accepts crown graciously >

Tldr I didn't read much in this section this time last year, but there was a thread in AIBU which ended up with an adopter coming back here and saying "why do I bother" or something (I read the thread in AIBU) and the posters in AIBU were irate about the TAAT - is that the one you mean?

Hi Spooky Rachel, I think the issue is not tough talking, the cliquey issue (to me) is to do with the fact it is not so much what you say but who you are. As I said upthread, I have read back a few years and cannot find a single instance of adoptees or bms contributing to threads with opinions or comments (ie not asking for support) where it has been received favourably, and some people have ended up not posting again, which has probably been the intention (if Pocket's comments are anything to go by). Another eg, an "outsider" raises issue of terminating adoptions and gets accused by multiple adopters of being offensive and the same accusation follows the poster around from thread to thread whereas Lilka raises fundamentally the same issue and there are several pages of civilised comments and no one screams "offensive".

Friendship group is all good, but this section is supposed to be for the everyone in the triangle or involved in adoption and that isn't possible if some adopters effectively try to boot some posters off. If "tough talking" turns into something a bit more... off... then it is not remotely supportive for people reading it as well as the person on the receiving (I wasn't involved in the thread mentioned above but I was pretty irate on the other posters behalf...). mnhq will delete posts if they are trolling or inflammatory or personal attacks, and that is all that you should expect, so basically there is no need for the adopters to be policing the threads.

Genuine tough talking is good too - eg when I need advice I post on AIBU under a different username, because I know I will get the tough talking from a wide group of people. But on here there seems to be tough talking sometimes, but sometimes well beyond.

And sometimes good points get lost - the infamous Letterbox thread - an adoptee talks about the benefits of continued contact with birth family and says that the training the adopters get sounds out of date - cue several hundred posts of adopters pisstaking, telling the adoptee she clearly knows nothing about modern adoption, misquoting and accusations, etc - then at the end it turns out that there is research which supports both things the adoptee said.... In a later thread an adopter finds more research.

See this is why having a crap memory is awesome. I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

If you really want to talk about it, start a thread, give some links, we can discuss.

But honestly, you've not done a lot of listening on this thread and if you hadn't have said you were an adoptee I'd have ignored you much sooner. I didn't because I am, believe it or not, interested in what adopted people have to say. Doesn't mean they can't be wrong.

Maybe the "outsider" said it in an offensive way and lilka didn't.

Lilka was clear about her position and what drove her thoughts, "outsider" offered controversial views with no insight as to their background. Over a number of threads "outsider" made their position of being very critical of the adoption system but refused to explain what their role was and what was driving their advice. Outsider never came up with any argument or evidence to support their position other than quoting back previous issues that had been shared on mn and adoption uk previously (out of context). That's something you clearly have in common.

To be clear, I couldn't give a shit about posters challenging the adoption system - spero, a well respected poster often challenges the status quo. But I couldn't give a flying fuck about the "mean girls" defensive mentality - if someone posts bollocks in my opinion I will discuss it and make my view clear.

To be even clearer - you were challenged and corrected here because you offered advice and opinions that were in many posters opinions incorrect and showed your lack of understanding (e.g. that ironic could have approached a solicitor to discuss her opinion. And that adopters aren't following due process with name changes). You weren't challenged because you haven't mastered our secret fucking handshake.

And finally to be crystal clear, I'm too old for this fucking clique shit - it's patronising - if you want to report a poster or thread as being bullying, the buttons at the top of the page & let mnhq make a call. If posters can't cope with robust debate then that's their issue and I couldn't give a shiny shitting shit.

A shitting shit!

We can incorporate it into our motto and family crest once we've worked out our handshake, tldr.

You have LOADS of stuff in common with that poster. You should drop her a line. You two are like two peas in a pod.

Oh except that she doesn't post anymore. And you have just started posting. But you know all the backstory - almost as though you were there - so that should be fine.

Perhaps a sparkly toilet seat for the coat of arms? SO looking forward to my membership badge and tribe t-shirt

But I couldn't give a flying fuck about the "mean girls" defensive mentality - if someone posts bollocks in my opinion I will discuss it and make my view clear.

The problem with this is that this is supposedly a support forum for people affected by adoption. Adopters are on the winning edge of adoption. If you can't appreciate, ( and I know that many people here do), just how profound and prolonged is the grief of many of those who are separated by adoption, then perhaps you don't know quite as much about the subject as you think. If you do understand it, and behave the way that you do, then perhaps you are just not very supportive people.
I prefer to think that the former is the case.

Offred, I fully understand the adoption issues - I live them day in day out and am constantly projecting into how my actions may impact my LO and his birth family.
But I fundamentally disagree that support shouldn't include challenging false assertions from posters who are discussing live issues. The comment about approaching a solicitor to discuss an LA'S opinion on a link is totally wrong. I'm not going to ignore that on the basis that the poster decides it's bullying and that we are somehow colluding on responses as a homogenous mass.
The poster didn't get challenged about her feelings about her name or her adoption - she was challenged about her advice which wasn't correct and showed a lack of understanding of the wider issues.

And can I point out - the quote you used in your post is MINE. So then stating that maybe we aren't "supportive people" as a result of MY comment is once again projecting a homogeneous group identity on us. You think MY comment shows I'm not a supportive person, fair enough. I honestly don't care what you think about my empathy skills. But my opinions are my own please don't decide to allocate them to an entire group on my behalf.
If a poster feels like there is bullying happening then report to mnhq. Don't hurl bullying accusations around because you are a lone voice with an opinion that's not being particularly well received.
Opinions of course my own.

'Behave the way you do'?

When the advice given is to take actions that might result in a match failing we should do what? Let it stand?

Tbh I have fairly serious doubts that the poster concerned has the backstory she's claiming. In her last incarnation she didn't raise this at all. She may be an adoptee. I'd say it's 50/50. She certainly has another agenda which is very anti-adoption.

This board isn't and never has been adopters versus adoptees or birth mothers or anyone else. She can frame it like that if she wants. It's up to all of us whether we fall for that or not.

Actually I'm an adoptee and I don't recognise the situation that jellyfish describes

I think it's very inappropriate to say that there is a " winning side " in adoption and suggest that adopters know nothing about grief. It's quite insulting actually.

No one " wins " in adoption . It's not about losers and winners . Everyone involved comes to adoption from a point of loss. Adoption is not " a good thing" , it's a bad thing. It's just better than the alternative , which is children being raised in institutions.

In an ideal world, all children woudl be born into families who were able to care for them . Adoption is a humane response to the fact that we live in a less than perfect world.

Most adopters, like most parents , love their children very much. But it can be very challenging to raise a child with profound special needs of different types .

Have you any idea how many marriages split up with the strain ? Nearly every family I know who have a child with attachment disorder have split up . Tell them that they are winners.

I know a family who were foster carers for a healthy newborn baby. After some months the child was placed back in his bio family. Where he sustained a non accidental head injury which left him brain damaged . So he went back to the Fc who adopted him . Why don't you go to that child and his parenst and tell them that they are " winners " ?

What about the parenst who have to give up their jobs because their child needs full time care ? Or the couple who have to separate because one of their children is a risk to the others ?

What about the parents whose kids struggle with the lifetime legacy of sexual abuse ? I watched a pre schooler act out sexual acts with a toy - go tell her parents that they are winners and how they should feel guilty about her birth parenst loss .

Or those who lose their jobs because of false allegations of abuse from disturbed children ?

Some of you have no idea of the pain that parenst go through watching their kids struggle just to live a normal life, go to school, have freinds .

These losses are part of adoption. They are not the same as the losses and pain felt by birth parents and adoptees, but they are just as real and valid .