Relations between China and the UK

Genuinely confused, why is the OP so sure we are going to be at war with China in 18 months...just the UK?

I've no idea, we won't be (at war) I'm certain of that. As to the status of diplomatic relations then I've genuinely no idea. Xi is playing a long game here, and he has no reason not to continue that strategy. William Hague has a very good article in the Times in which he urges on us a more engaged foreign policy of development with the global south. He offers wise and sage counsel whether we are capable of that with a diminished place in the world particularly post Brexit and the prospects of a changing of the guard in the US remains to be seen.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/west-can-stop-the-world-falling-for-xi-and-putin-hzkwlcfh3

According to polling last autumn, 87 per cent of the 1.2 billion people who live in liberal democracies held a negative view of Russia; 75 per cent also thought negatively of China. But the two dictators meeting this week are playing to a different audience: the views of the more than 6 billion people who live outside our democracies are the exact opposite. Months into Moscow’s murderous war, large majorities thought positively of Russia in south Asia (75 per cent), Francophone Africa (68 per cent) and southeast Asia (62 per cent). What has become known as the global south, including many increasingly important and populous states, just doesn’t think our way.

To us this can seem so irrational that it’s hard to accept. And we console ourselves that 141 countries have voted in the UN to condemn Russian aggression. But only about 40 of those have done anything about it, with sanctions or assistance to Ukraine, and the abstentions included some of the world’s most consequential nations. India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi, has said it is not a time for war, but his country has stepped up purchases of Russian oil. President Lula of Brazil has said it takes two to fight. South Africa has hosted exercises with Russian warships.

We have to adjust to the idea that most of the world does not see things our way. As China builds diplomatic prestige in the Middle East through bringing Saudi Arabia and Iran closer, and expands its list of client states in Africa, Asia and Latin America with grants and loans — no questions asked — the West will need to guard against the danger of being globally outmanoeuvred. It is entirely possible that our values will ultimately triumph in Ukraine, and we should fervently hope so. But we might then find that our interests are under threat across much of the rest of the world.

We have to adjust to the idea that most of the world does not see things our way.

You can say that again!

@LittleFingerStrength i wasn’t being that way at all I was genuinely asking as I didn’t understand a lot of posts on the thread. But please do go ahead and insult people who are showing interest in your post and threads.

So glad to have found this thread. I have been concerned about China for a while.

My last comment - the people of China don’t want war any more than we do.

My only contribution to this discussion is to note that a singular feature of all Western democracies is the number of wars they get involved in that the people "didn't want". Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan[1] spring to mind. To the extent that you have to question what definition of "democracy" is being used.

[1] For both the west and USSR.

That’s a very significant comment. I totally agree with it. Amazing insight!

It’s an interesting point - in the past people looked at the eastern bloc and thought “no thanks” to long queues for shops which sold nothing of use, backwards societies where you weren’t allowed to leave. I’m only in my 40s and remember the stories coming out of Romania, Bulgaria etc.
But now I think people look at China and think, well, it looks quite good really. Ok, you’ll be arrested if you say the wrong thing but there are millions of people living comfortable lives in working cities, decked out in designer clothes etc and here I am in the U.K. with half the public services on strike, massive inflation and suddenly autocracy doesn’t look like the worst option.
Jinping has so far done a very careful and successful advertisement for a communist country in a way that I can’t think any other dictator has done in the past century.

Hmm no thanks to people selling China

I mean I’m sure it has good points, and I had a very interesting time working for a HK based company and travelling to SE Asia

But no. If people want to move there go for it though.

The point I’m making is that in comparison to dictatorships of the past, Jinping is doing a very careful attempt at not seeming like an absolute tyrant.
I have no desire to live in a society like China, but I read an article recently that said the worse the west gets, especially in relation to wealth discrepancies, the more people are slightly prepared to look favourably on an autocratic leader - mainly just to get shit done.

I agree with you .

Even though all this talk of war and so much unrest makes me anxious for the future!

So true x

When you have demonstrators gluing themselves to the road and holding up hundreds of people, it’s easy to see why people think “god it would be handy to not have to be nice to these people but just fling them in jail”

But the fundamental part of a democratic society is that you have to tolerate the bits you don’t like and the bits that don’t go in your favour.

The social contract that we used to have in the west seemed to understand this - we tolerated things we didn’t like, because they weren’t THAT bad, and people didn’t do really annoying things with “democracy” on their side as they didn’t want to upset the social contract or test the boundaries of tolerance TOO hard.

But our support for democracy was based on the “fact” that life was overall better for the majority of people under a democratic system. I’m not sure that over the past 10-15 years that has held up, which then allows people to start questioning whether lib democracies are the best way to provide the best life for the most people.