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Relations between China and the UK

215 replies

LittleFingerStrength · 14/03/2023 12:30

If there is a thread on this already I apologise.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11857821/China-warns-AUKUS-deal-going-dangerous-path.html

There has been talk for a very long time, so it's no surprise. I understand we will be at war with them in possibly 18 plus months.

I gather we obtain a lot of pharma drugs from India.

I don't know a great deal about trade with China and who they can control trade with us if at war.

I understand they are in BRICS so those countries loyalty is likely to China.

What can be done on a personal level to deal with the potential changes in trade?

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LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 12:56

Scowlette · 16/03/2023 12:52

@Suzi888 well quite but how are mothers supposed to feel about their children's future? So much for the end of history: i would seriously rethink my decision to have children if I'd been making it now

We make the best of the situation, you see a pandemic coming you speak to people and get toilet roll in 😆

You see war coming you get a in some extra drinking glass 😆

Having toilet paper can make life more comfortable when other things in life are difficult.

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Thesharkradar · 16/03/2023 13:00

but powers are at force which manufacture and steer the narrative in a direction that suits the most powerful in society and represents their interest not necessarily ours
Of course, we all tend to be driven by what we perceive to be our own best interests and those in power have (because of their power) a much greater ability to promote what's in the interest of them and people like them.
On the other hand because of mass communication it's much harder for those in power to pull the wool over the eyes of the people, the rich and powerful only attain and maintain their positions because they have the ability/ leverage to steer the people into working for them.
The people at the top cannot stay there without the work and support of the people underneath them, none of them can be an island.

DomesticShortHair · 16/03/2023 13:01

The government don’t think we’ll be in a major war with China (or indeed anybody else) in the near to mid term, at least. Though they have been wrong before, they have a lot more sources, intelligence gathering resources and analysts focused on the issue than you do.

My reasoning and evidence for this is, if they didn’t think so, then the allocated Defence budget, including the recent insignificant increase, would be a lot bigger than it is.

LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 13:03

DomesticShortHair · 16/03/2023 13:01

The government don’t think we’ll be in a major war with China (or indeed anybody else) in the near to mid term, at least. Though they have been wrong before, they have a lot more sources, intelligence gathering resources and analysts focused on the issue than you do.

My reasoning and evidence for this is, if they didn’t think so, then the allocated Defence budget, including the recent insignificant increase, would be a lot bigger than it is.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64975672

Boris told people that it would take three Weeks to flatten the curve, he knew more than me!

I didn't believe him.

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LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 13:06

A handful of Western journalists were found to have been tracked by ByteDance employees. ByteDance says they were fired.

A US TikTokker shared a video criticising the Chinese government's treatment of the Uighur Muslims, and it was taken down. TikTok said this was a mistake.

This has added to the nervousness of governments and security specialists - despite the firm's consistent denials.

The Chinese state demands loyalty from all businesses based in the country and nobody really knows to what extent ByteDance might be pushed to comply with demands for data.

Teresa May and Nicola Sturgeon told me men are women and self ID was a good idea, they had more information than me.

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treneton · 16/03/2023 13:09

Thesharkradar · 16/03/2023 13:00

but powers are at force which manufacture and steer the narrative in a direction that suits the most powerful in society and represents their interest not necessarily ours
Of course, we all tend to be driven by what we perceive to be our own best interests and those in power have (because of their power) a much greater ability to promote what's in the interest of them and people like them.
On the other hand because of mass communication it's much harder for those in power to pull the wool over the eyes of the people, the rich and powerful only attain and maintain their positions because they have the ability/ leverage to steer the people into working for them.
The people at the top cannot stay there without the work and support of the people underneath them, none of them can be an island.

To a degree of course and prosperity and social movements have increased our prosperity as a whole and our consequential freedoms. Sadly that process is going into reverse, democracy is increasingly under threat in the west - Trump and Johnson for instance can easily be taken as signs of a decaying body politic. Serious countries would never have elected such people to high office, yet elect them they did. The process of creating a societal consensus in a liberal democracy is what Chomsky calls manufacturing consent.

DomesticShortHair · 16/03/2023 13:21

LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 13:03

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64975672

Boris told people that it would take three Weeks to flatten the curve, he knew more than me!

I didn't believe him.

I understand your reasoning. But that initially didn’t affect Boris personally too much. Then Boris fell ill, and suddenly Covid became this really big thing, with long lockdowns, furlough etc. If he hadn’t have fallen ill, or if the other politicians weren’t scared for their own health, then the country’s response to Covid would probably have been a lot less significant. A shooting war with China would put the politicians, their families, their mistresses and their favourite prostitutes directly at risk. So, as always with politicians, when it affects them personally, you’ll find there’s a completely different approach to when it’s something that only affects the plebs/proles.

Thesharkradar · 16/03/2023 13:30

I agree the greater their wealth and power the more we just look like ants seen through the wrong end of the telescope

Thesharkradar · 16/03/2023 13:35

Trump and Johnson for instance can easily be taken as signs of a decaying body politic
Yes!
Although I also can't help feeling that, one society goes beyond a certain point no one sensible would want to be the actual leader ...much better to be the person behind the scenes pulling the strings of the useful idiot?

LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 14:02

DomesticShortHair · 16/03/2023 13:21

I understand your reasoning. But that initially didn’t affect Boris personally too much. Then Boris fell ill, and suddenly Covid became this really big thing, with long lockdowns, furlough etc. If he hadn’t have fallen ill, or if the other politicians weren’t scared for their own health, then the country’s response to Covid would probably have been a lot less significant. A shooting war with China would put the politicians, their families, their mistresses and their favourite prostitutes directly at risk. So, as always with politicians, when it affects them personally, you’ll find there’s a completely different approach to when it’s something that only affects the plebs/proles.

China would put the politicians, their families, their mistresses and their favourite prostitutes directly at risk.

Let's take Boris for an example

His wife had cancer and look what he did to her. You would think he only had two children throughout his time in No10.

Local politicians and non ministerial MPs will be told lies about bunkers.

We are replaceable to these people, wives, children, employees aren't loved they only love themselves and they will make sure that they will be OK!

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LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 14:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11866893/A-Afghan-women-footballers-evacuated-Britain-hadnt-played-sport.html

The government know more than me yes, who is informing them?

I will make decisions after gaining information from many sources and put aside some.

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Southwestten · 16/03/2023 14:22

Barbados is another example where they have heavily invested in infrastructure (needed) just at the very moment they decide to no longer be part of the commonwealth.

I thought Barbados parted ways with the Queen but remained a member of the Commonwealth? Did China encourage Barbados to get rid of the Queen?

treneton · 16/03/2023 14:22

Thesharkradar · 16/03/2023 13:35

Trump and Johnson for instance can easily be taken as signs of a decaying body politic
Yes!
Although I also can't help feeling that, one society goes beyond a certain point no one sensible would want to be the actual leader ...much better to be the person behind the scenes pulling the strings of the useful idiot?

Thats why I think PR and consensus government is so important and a government that works for the whole of society not just vested interests. Boom and bust capitalism is nearly at the point of dysfunction now. There has to be a better way of organising society and reducing conflicts both within our society and between different societies.

jibbe · 16/03/2023 14:28

Always remember a historian saying the 20th century was the Americans and the 21st will be the Chinese. Personally feel our century was the 19th

Southwestten · 16/03/2023 14:29

Trump and Johnson for instance can easily be taken as signs of a decaying body politic

Treneton would you prefer to live in a country with a decaying body politic or in an authoritarian country like China?
Genuine question. People who live in democracies claim to dislike dictatorships but then democracies seem to have plenty of problems too.

ShrewsH · 16/03/2023 14:30

We're ripe for socialism, which I'm not in favour of, it hasn't worked anywhere but hey ho, don't let that stop us.

Scowlette · 16/03/2023 14:36

How will the UK balance its relationship between China and the U.S.? What does this look like in 2049?

LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 15:00

ShrewsH · 16/03/2023 14:30

We're ripe for socialism, which I'm not in favour of, it hasn't worked anywhere but hey ho, don't let that stop us.

Yes.

I get the impression a deal may have been done. Russia clearly wants mainland Europe to Lisbon.

I don't know if it's accurate, I understand that Canada allows the CCP train there. That many coming through Mexico to USA as refugees are Chinese.

4,978 Iranians arrived in Britain via small boat last year, so they will be undocumented and most are fit young men.

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MagicFox · 16/03/2023 15:03

@LittleFingerStrength sorry what exactly are you suggesting here? That the world has already been divided up between China Russia and Iran and that we have already been invaded? What evidence other than Daily Mail quotes do you have for this? Can you be clear in terms of what exactly you're saying? I think it's important to back up such big statements

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LittleFingerStrength · 16/03/2023 15:06

MagicFox · 16/03/2023 15:03

@LittleFingerStrength sorry what exactly are you suggesting here? That the world has already been divided up between China Russia and Iran and that we have already been invaded? What evidence other than Daily Mail quotes do you have for this? Can you be clear in terms of what exactly you're saying? I think it's important to back up such big statements

They are your statements.

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MagicFox · 16/03/2023 15:07

Yes they're working together but what's your point about deals already been done and Iranian invasions? What deals? What evidence for these specific deals re territory?

MagicFox · 16/03/2023 15:07

*I get the impression a deal may have been done. Russia clearly wants mainland Europe to Lisbon.

I don't know if it's accurate, I understand that Canada allows the CCP train there. That many coming through Mexico to USA as refugees are Chinese.

4,978 Iranians arrived in Britain via small boat last year, so they will be undocumented and most are fit young men.*

Well those are my statements about your statements above so if I've interpreted them wrongly please clarify

Coxspurplepippin · 16/03/2023 15:11

'On the other hand because of mass communication it's much harder for those in power to pull the wool over the eyes of the people, the rich and powerful only attain and maintain their positions because they have the ability/ leverage to steer the people into working for them.'

Putin seems to be managing mass communication quite well, sadly, and not just in his own backyard.

Igotjelly · 16/03/2023 15:15

MagicFox · 16/03/2023 15:07

*I get the impression a deal may have been done. Russia clearly wants mainland Europe to Lisbon.

I don't know if it's accurate, I understand that Canada allows the CCP train there. That many coming through Mexico to USA as refugees are Chinese.

4,978 Iranians arrived in Britain via small boat last year, so they will be undocumented and most are fit young men.*

Well those are my statements about your statements above so if I've interpreted them wrongly please clarify

Don’t think you’ve interpreted it wrong.

Personally I interpret the last point as pure xenophobia.

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