Fuck. Russian bomb has hit Poland.

Do we want to play the game though? Because Putin likes the game.

Imagine...

No. I have half a brain cell. And fortunately as much as I think many politicians are vastly over promoted and full of shit, I also think NATO aren't going to have a brain fart and go.

Omg 2 missiles and 2 dead, let's risk nuclear war.

There are many civil servants who do manage to make up for the idiocy of politicians thankfully.

And Boris Johnson and Liz Truss are no longer walking rent a foot in gobs with power.

Imagine sending our cycling/lycra-clad husbands off to war?

I think women would do a better job than the wankers we have lol.

the missiles will have left fragments/pieces, so confirmation of the type will come.

Who are you going to believe?

@PaidthepiperTuneismine what an odd post

@PaidthepiperTuneismine it's pretty easy to work out where a missile has originated from, even if it's just fragments.

Plus it will be caught in imagery too.

Do we want to play the game though? Because Putin likes the game.

Exactly!

If you're the one examining it. Whose report will you believe?

Dutch, German, French PMs have all stated they are monitoring the situation, but none have blamed Russia as they don't know the facts yet (I wonder how those on mumsnet are so sure they know the facts).

Dutch PM states it's important to find out exactly what happened.

^this.... esp on sanctions.

Nothing Putin has done so far is rational and the European NATO allies don't have the means to stop Russia conventionally, stocks now super low.... UK has just 23k infantry, could deploy a 3rd? ... Ukraine has around 100k killed and injured.

One thing this should have taught us is we rely soooo much on the USA.

Assuming Russia has done this deliberately, NATO needs a tough response i.e more troops equipment into Poland.

For those that think this is ridiculous... why did Putin do it?

@PaidthepiperTuneismine who do you think are going to make the reports? You seem to think that it will just be Russia and Ukraine that will be involved in the denial or admission.

Or are you saying Poland will lie to create a reason for NATO to want to go to war.

Which means they're trying to say that they don't believe Putin did this, so Poland is all on its own.

Whose report will you believe?

Poland is not on it's own - that's very clear from the statements that are being released.

But no one in a position of authority is going to blame Russia until they know the accurate facts.

So far this war Russia has proved the levels of corruption that have become institutionalised to a scale almost unimaginable. It caught the West off guard and it massively over estimated Russian capability.

Russia has shown poor leadership, management and handling of precious resources.

The only thing it has are lies. And they are rather useless at anything more than making it harder for the Russian public to understand the difference of information and disinformation. This renders them powerless and makes it harder for the public to unify.

Above all else Hanlons Razor applies:

"never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

I don't disagree that Putin is hell bent on destruction and doesn't value life. But really his decisions are now led more by stupidity than constructive, considered strategic benefits.

At the expense of losing millions of lives in Europe (including the British ones ?)

@Zuno

Macron stated weeks ago that he planned on sitting back and doing nothing if the situation heated up.

Although I do understand the need to have all the facts before making any decisions. If Nato is to do something, they need to know that they have the moral highground or it could backfire.

Then what’s he got to lose?

Although I do understand the need to have all the facts before making any decisions. If Nato is to do something, they need to know that they have the moral highground or it could backfire.

Yep, exactly the point I am making - and that mumsnetters shouting about how awful this is, actually don't have a clue because there are yet very few shared facts or explanations of what actually happened - and there's multiple scenarios that may have happened.

We just need to keep dancing the gavotte with him until the music stops.

I don't know.

There are 3 plausible scenarios.

1. We've been caught off-guard ONCE AGAIN by Putin and he is provoking us and we will take action
2. We're looking for an excuse to escalate our response to Russia by claiming he has invaded a NATO country
3. We've been caught off-guard ONCE AGAIN by Putin and he is provoking us and Poland will realise that they're fucked

Poland verifying the facts before deciding whether to invoke article 4.

Pretty much what I would expect.

@PaidthepiperTuneismine there are many more scenarios that it could be.

Some Russian is going to get shot for not aiming the missle in the right direction. I definitely think it was a accident and not intended to hit Poland