Occupation order hearing next week, panicking

[mamacat612]

Can anyone tell me what my chances are or have any experience of this?

I am divorcing my husband, we have one child. I left the family home with our child to go live with family members due to his angry outbursts.

I asked him within a few weeks to please move out of the home and allow myself and our child to move back in. This is for stability for our child. He refused and said he has no where else to go. This is partially true, we moved to an area to be close to my family when we had our child and his parents and family members do live hours away, I don’t dispute this.

I applied for an occupation order on advice.

He is saying if he is forced to leave the home, that he will have no choice but to move back to parents which means loosing his job, or be homeless.

We both earn similar amounts, neither of us can afford a private rental and paying half the mortgage which I have accepted in my statement.

He is saying in his statement that I can get housing benefit and rent with our child and has done a calculation! Or live with family members but I want our child to be back in the family home. My family members can’t accomodate us long term and it’s crapped as we are in a flat.

He has started financial proceedings for the divorce as we haven’t been able to agree with either the sale of the house or buying each other out.

If I am to move back in I can’t afford the mortgage alone and would need him to still pay his half.

I don’t have any concrete evidence of his angry outbursts other than my statement, no other witnesses. But I can’t move back in and live with him until this is all sorted, his behaviour scares me.

For his part he says we did argue at the end of the relationship, but he denies any angry outbursts or intimidating behaviour.

We are both self representing and there will be a legal advisor at the hearing to ask questions.

It is ok for the father, but he doesn’t want to and doesn’t have to so won’t be doing it

OP also doesn’t have to. She could also move back into the house, but doesn’t want to.

Just get the house sold asap. Where a house is depreciating in value, any delay in sale just costs you money as the mortgage payment is way more than any gain in equity. Get it on the market and then worry about the split of equity later. You don’t have to agree this before it’s sold

You are being very unrealistic here with your expectations.

The house needs to be put on the market immediately. There is no time or money for renovations that might take ages anyway. That looks like a delaying tactic by you.

As your higher deposit wasn’t ring fenced then it’s unlikely you will get it back. How much are we talking about? That was asked previously but I haven’t seen your answer to it.

Slamming things and shouting will not be enough for the occupation order.

You are jointly liable for the mortgage payments and it will affect your credit rating if you default on them.

Many many people have to live together while the house sells. Sooner it goes on the market for a sensible price the sooner you’ll be out of there and can move on.

Looks like you are delaying things and while I understand how awful things must be for you at the moment you really need to take onboard the advice you have received on here and get things moving.

The problem is that neither will the court.

You need to be calling police every time he approaches you, every abusive message, every threat etc etc.

It's harsh but there's women here who have nearly lost their lives through violence but unless there are reports, investigations etc then as far as courts are concerned it's one word against the other

"...however he refuses to sell the home"

From the OP it appears that the husband is quite keen to sell but the OP does not wish to sell at the moment.

It would appear that the house is currently being renovated and OP seems to be pushing for the house to be valued at a higher figure commensurate with some sort of value that it might fetch when renovation is complete.

Can anyone tell me what my chances are or have any experience of this?

To be blunt, your chances are slim. Very slim. The first thing the court will look at is whether his behaviour crosses the threshold into abuse. Not all unpleasant behaviour does and on what you've written it doesn't actually sound like it has.

You have no evidence. The behaviour has never been serious enough for you to consider reporting him. Therefore it comes down what you say and what he says. This makes it difficult for a court, although it is entitled weight each party's evidence based on how it assesses the credibility of each.

You seem to think that whatever he's done or said entitles you to have everything you want, at least until the divorce is finalised. The court won't see it that way. If it feels that the relationship has broken down irretrievably it has a number of options - whichh PPs have explained - between you having to live there as before or keeping him out entirely. The financial settlement may require you to sell the house as is, in order to bring things to a close. What do you think bringing it up to full value would look like? Who would pay? Who would do the work? Courts tend not to like arrangements based on sometime-in the-future maybes. They prefer to deal with things as they are now.

You need to go into this with a realistic understanding of what might happen. The court isn't going to give in to you just because you think it should.

Can we stop telling her she needs to move back in. She is too scared to because he is aggressive.

I’m shocked by this thread. You removed yourself from the house op. You are paying half the mortgage but why on earth haven’t this family you say will do the renovations actually been doing the renovations to get the house sold? You want your ex to move out for an indefinite amount of time to sell a v house that you say can’t be sold due to the start of it and YOU want the higher price despite this?

if your DH was abusive then I’m sorry but you seem to want everything your way after he moved for you to be with your family and now you want to kick him out, you live there with him paying half and he fucks off back to where he came from with zero chance of being hosed when he’s paying half the mortgage.

it doesn’t matter if your kid is clingy. You get a job and go back full time and put them in nursery etc. you seem to want want want with very little actual grasp that you are not the character in this story. Your DH is an actual person too and he needs housing as do you and your child. Go and get a full time job and it will be easier to rehouse yourself. Also your parents are seriously moving to a retirement property and making you homeless in your hour of need AFTER you disclosed abuse? That’s terrible of them and sound like awful parents. I would try and stop the world turning to help my child and grandchild, not evict them and force them to go back to an abusive partner. That’s terrible.

Yeah it's too messy. The only sensible thing to do is sell it.

Yes your credit rating will be affected. Sorry to say but this isn't good advice. If the mortgage is in both your names then you are still held responsible if it doesn't get paid. I don't have any advice for you, but it's a horrible mess and I hope it works out for you.

They argued at the end of the relationship. He hasn't contacted her since. She thinks he has another girlfriend and is hardly home anyway. There isn't any evidence to suggest she or her child wouldn't be safe if they moved back in to the home.

Yes we decided to move to be near my family when I was pregnant, it was my turn- we lived away for his job for years! It doesn’t make him a saint because he agreed to move? It doesn’t mean he wasn’t abusive.

Can anyone explain why people are being so mean to the OP? Is it the herd mentality thing where because a few started to be mean everyone else is?

Its not even that I think people are not giving correct advice but it’s the way people are speaking to the OP that seems unnecessarily harsh.

Its so bizarre

You need to get the house sold ASAP, even if you haven't decided how to split the proceeds. At least that way you will both be able to afford to rent pending an agreement/decision on the finances

I honestly think if id posted a thread to say my husband was aggressive and slammed things and threw things I would be told he was abusive.

If I posted that my husband refused to leave the house and was leaving my child and I homeless I would be told he was abusive.

If I posted that my husband managed to find a new gf soon after the breakup, but not see his child or say concentrate on getting a better paying job, progress the financial settlement etc I would be told he is selfish, unreasonable etc.

I honestly don’t get the answers here. I know an occupation order isn’t a given but I thought I had a decent chance.

Because it's obvious she is wanting her cake and to eat it.

She has said he was aggressive. He said it was mutual. She has said women’s aid confirmed his behaviour was abusive. Just because he’s not physically violent doesn’t mean she isn’t at risk. Living in fear is very bad for your health.

She’s being told how the judge will view it, sans any evidence of abuse.

Moving back in is absolutely an option for her. That she doesn’t want to doesn’t mean that she can’t. They’re not going to give her an occupation order to accommodate her preferences.

OP, you have no evidence of abuse, apart from a phone call to Women's Aid. I'm not disputing the fact that you feel your husband has been abusive, because clearly you believe he has. The problem is, you need proper evidence...medical, police, social services reports. Any woman can contact Women's Aid, and say their husband is abusive, but it doesn't make it true. No one likes to think that a woman would lie about domestic abuse or rape, but sadly, they do. No Judge is going to take your word, or even a letter from Women's Aid as absolute proof of abuse.

If you stop paying your share of the mortgage, you will completely screw up your credit score and potentially cause yourself unnecessary financial stress. You are both liable for mortgage payments. If one stops paying, the bank will go to the other to pay. If neither of you pay, they will take steps to repossess the house (eventually).

You have no more rights over your home, than your husband. It's jointly owned by you both. Unfortunately, you didn't ring-fence the inheritance that you received, at the time you purchased the house. Of course, you want to claw that back by receiving more of the equity, but I'm not sure that legally you can, unless your husband agrees.

I don't think a Judge will grant you an occupation order, based on what you've said in this thread. I would urge you to actually seek some proper legal advice. Your expectations are unrealistic, and a solicitor needs to tell you that.

Women’s aid can take her claims at face value. A court will not.

I've seen some of the comments from people who have experienced domestic abuse.
I think people are seeing patterns in the OPs post, but those patterns point to her being the perpetrator rather than the victim.
Delaying the house sale. Upset that the door cam has gone and she can't see his comings and goings. Talk about him having another girlfriend. Her wanting complete control but using her child as the reason (saying ex needs to move out so child has stability despite it being pointed out a quick sale is best for the child). No insight into her own behaviour or ability to take on the POV of others. Her claiming abuse with no evidence, him being the one who has cut contact with her which could be telling, perpetrators don't usually let their victims go easily. When people weren't agreeing with her and pointed out she has somewhere to go and he doesn't she suddenly adds that her parents are selling their home, which understandably people find odd because what parent would do that at this time? So it signals potential dishonesty.

Correct. Abusive men often do really kind things periodically otherwise we would leave sooner. Don’t let this thread gaslight you. You know the truth. You know what you experienced.

I think you need to just get the house sold and cut your loses. No it might not be fair but it will over quicker.

Op. No one is doubting your allegation, however we are not a court and you wished answers on your occupation order request, and as you cannot evidence any of it, and have not complained during the marriage or retained any evidence if such a thing there is no way a court will find in your favour,

it is very common to make these allegations on divorce when trying to win something, this is why a court will discount,

he is also allowed a girlfriend, the court won’t take this into account, nor does he need to find a better job to support you.

I will say OP I think it’s a fairly common mistake for people to think someone has to move out during a divorce and an occupation order makes that happen. I’m going through a divorce and have seen this a lot.

I’m really surprised that for a 5 year marriage and a divorce that doesn’t seem to have advanced much, you are in a situation where you are relying on the courts to agree finances, the family court to agree custody and the court to agree occupation. This is really high conflict and you’re fighting over very little.

as someone else said the court will only order a surveyor valuation of the property as is for the financial agreement. They won’t be listening to tales of achieving maximum price etc, they don’t get involved in adults private lives to this extent.

Of course. But that’s still why she can’t live at home with him.

Someone on a message board taking your claims at face value does not mean the same thing will happen in court. It won’t.

“If I posted that my husband managed to find a new gf soon after the breakup, but not see his child or say concentrate on getting a better paying job, progress the financial settlement etc I would be told he is selfish, unreasonable etc.”

You would also be told that there is nothing you can do about it.