Annoying man on train

[Weeeheee]

A couple joined DD(20) and I at our table.

I prefer the aisle seat, so moved to let the man onto the window seat. "You expect ME to sit in there?" I nodded and smiled. He didn't seem happy.

He then joined in with DD and I's crossword clue discussion. He then had the gall to start telling DD the answers to clues he read in the puzzle book that she hadn't even got to.

He wouldn't stop talking at DD, and I was figuring out how to politely tell him to butt out, when his wife/partner said "This is like your dream (to him). I bet he's annoying the heck out of you though. (To me)"

I smiled and said " yes, it is annoying".

I thought that should be enough, but no, the man carried on dominating DDs attention. I sat back, told DD to ask me when she got stuck, and thinking about how to phrase "STFU" when DD said "I thought we were having a lovely time doing this together"

I replied " So did I, but this man won't stop interfering"

He finally got the hint, well his partner did, shoved his own crossword at him, and told him to be quiet.

5 minutes. That's all he could keep quiet for. He just couldn't stop looking at DDs puzzle book, telling her the answers, inserting himself into our conversation.

I asked him directly if he could please stop. Again, 5 minutes of quiet, then leaning over to read the clues, and tell DD the answers. His partner kept telling him to stop, which gave brief respite, but he couldn't help himself getting stuck into our conversation.

We couldn't move away from him, as the train was full. DD didn't want to stop puzzling, so we put up with him, but oh my word!

How on earth would you have dealt with him?

YOU not liking how someone is seated doesn’t give you the right to be a dick

many a time we have had people sitting diagonally for whatever reason and I don’t see how that should affect how polite I am

it’s not an invitation to chat

I would have put the book away to piss him off

But equally if the train becomes busy most people travelling together and seated as you were do move so that they are sitting directly opposite to each other or next to each other. Think about it - it you are in the corner seat and the person next to you is obviously with the person opposite and spends the journey chatting to them, wouldn't you feel hemmed in and awkward? Unless you really bury yourself in a book or activity you can't avoid appearing to be listening in to what they are saying. If you're with the person in the aisle seat, you can't comfortably have a conversation with them because you'll constantly be interrupting the other conversation.

I do think the man's behaviour was poor, especially after you'd asked him once to butt out, but yours wasn't perfect.

It’s also poor behaviour to talk across people meaning they can’t also talk. It’s possible that if the OP and daughter did not start discussing clues he may not have got involved. If everyone had stayed silent or at least the OP and daughter stayed quiet then the man could have just chatted to his wife - possibly about his own clues. But they couldn’t do that while another conversation was going on across them. There’s absolutely no way to know what would have happened had the OP and daughter not been talking across him. Maybe he still would have joined in. Or maybe he wouldn’t.

I got stuck in the middle of two people doing the aisle/window thing on a plane once. Full plane. I had no choice. It was only an hour or so thankfully. But Jesus did those two people just want to talk the entire time. Passed sweets across me. Swapped drinks that were open and could have spilled. Chatted about some TV series they were watching. I honestly just wanted to join in to piss them off. I did offer to swap seats but they both wanted the ones they were in. Cool. But shut the fuck up in that case. It’s so rude to talk over someone.

My DP and I like to chat on trains. If we’d been forced into your weird diagonal schema, we’d have felt extremely awkward about cross-chatting with each other over/around your crossword chat. Effectively we’d have had a choice: either talk over you (probably having to raise our voices), or not have our preferred option (chatting) at all. In real life we’d probably have rolled our eyes at each other, stayed quiet on the journey, and talked about what a weirdo you are the moment we got onto the platform.

But this guy has less of a filter than I do, so he decided to show you what happens when you force two pairs to sit in this way.

I suspect your answer to this is some variation on ‘I’m alright Jack’ (get another seat, stand all the way) and you seem to be struggling with the reality that that’s a dickish way to behave in the world, and that some people will retaliate. Yes, you can be selfish, there’s no law against it. But there’s also no law against people taking petty revenge on you. He doesn’t sound like my cup of tea, but your behaviour was rigid and selfish, and he had a lovely time judo-flipping it back onto you.

I'm reading this and am slightly awed at the contortions needed to justify man being rude and intrusive because OP breached some mythical MN rule about how to sit on a train. Seems to boil down to 'it's all your fault he was annoying, you didn't follow our rule so you asked for it.'

Yes, I travel on trains a lot, both locally and long-distance. It’s one of my DC’s greatest loves. There absolutely is a right way to sit, and in my thousands of train journeys, the vast majority of people follow it and have followed it for decades even before Mumsnet existed.

It’s you who lack social awareness. As I said, after your rude behaviour, the man probably thought you were just a grumpy, rude woman who was purposely niggling away at him. As far as he was aware, your DD was happy with his help because she kept replying to him

Social etiquette is not exclusive to Mumsnet lmao.

If train is busy, you move to accommodate others. If it’s empty, you can move to another table, no problem.

Expecting others to stand or sit awkwardly (whilst listening to you talking over them) is considered rude.

Man/woman doesn’t come into it.

You are very, very invested in this situation and being 100% right, aren’t you OP? I mean advanced searching me because I am making mildly critical comments, inviting you to reflect on your own behaviour. Blimey. What were you hoping to find, I wonder?

I’m mostly just amused by your complete lack of self awareness and absolute refusal to admit you contributed to this situation. It’s no skin of my nose if you carry on winding up random men on public transport because you are not willing to accept, despite numerous pp explaining normal seating expectations to you, that polite behaviour extends beyond crossword interruption etiquette. Do carry on 😂

No signals or requests were made by him, deliberate or otherwise.

And yes, he gave you a very clear verbal signal that he was unhappy with your seating arrangements. Even if you didn’t realise they were together at this point, you did after a while and most people (me certainly) would have put the verbal signal and the actual situation (two pairs now sitting across from each other) together and offered to swap places.

You can deny these signals were there as much as you like. Doing so only adds to the picture that you were acting in a similar manner to the man, deliberately ignoring social cues and continuing to flout social etiquette because you can and because you think you are right and above these niceties.

Whether they sit next to each other or diagonally there are still two seats empty at that table which are free for people to use

I don’t think OP will take anything from these comments. Just continue through life mouth agape that the world doesn’t revolve around her.

There are 3 configurations of seating available for 2 couples on a table of 4. Only one involves having to talk across another couple and also prevents both couples from talking at the same time. That is the one the OP chose.

Don’t make people sit as two diagonal pairs on public transport is not a MN rule. It is a UK train travel etiquette rule which people are discussing on MN.

Also in life I have found that if you act politely to people, they tend, on the whole, to act politely back.

If you act in a dickish manner to people, there is an increased chance they will act dickishly back.

Is this observation a contortion or victim blaming? I thought it was common sense and the basis of civility.

I don’t think it is an etiquette rule - that’s not my experience

and if you think it is / like many etiquette rules it seems rather arbitrary

and if someone breaks an etiquette rule - does that mean you can be rude ?

why?

I think people are just pointing out that rudeness attracts rudeness.

If it was ‘AIBU; man refuses to move so I can sit with DD, but then talks across the table at his wife the entire journey’ that would be another conversation about men taking up space and being entitled.

Oh come on, a four person table and you take one seat on each side when other people need two seats. Why?

Why are you calling one rude and one etiquette? I personally would say talking over/across someone (OP) is ruder than talking to someone (man). He may have taken it too far yes, but it could well have been solved by fixing the seating arrangement.

You and he appear to have a poor understanding of how to behave in a considerate way in public. I hope I'm never sat near either of you on a train.

If someone hasn't taken the hint after a few polite comments, I might be direct and say: Stop interfering. We want to do the puzzles ourselves. She wants to work them out, not have some strange man dominating our journey by giving her answers. Please occupy yourself.

My comment was in regards to the comment about taking up space. Regardless of how they sat there are still two empty free seats for others to use (which they did). Even if OP had put herself at the window opposite her DD I don’t think that would of stopped the man interfering

It was horribly rude of him but you could’ve all swapped seats?

I think it would’ve. He was clearly belligerent, but the stubborn refusal to simply let the 2 couples sit together normally probably riled him up a bit. I know it’s their ‘right’ but I always eye roll when somebody could so easily move seats so people can sit together but choose not to.

He obviously didn’t like being put in the window seat. The obvious solution would of been for Op to say she’ll move next to DD (so she’s still sat on an aisle seat) but for whatever reason she didn’t do that

The sitting diagonally is really weird. You should have moved to sit either next to or across from each other.
As for his repeated interactions, just put the puzzle away until later and do something else eg read quietly.
You made the situation weird and awkward by this bizarre sitting diagonally thing. I mean, who does that, when other people also want to sit at the table? Just odd.