Widow who wants to remarry...

[Ninetwenty]

I've been saying for years that I never would. It's too complicated with the conflict between the interests of DC and the marriage, but I'm starting to feel my age and frankly if anyone's going to be there for me as I get frail, it's more likely to be him than my adult sons! He's already supported me loads through caring for my parents, part of the reason I'm starting to feel this way is seeing how much more difficult things would have been for them if they lived alone.

My currently situation is that I have a large house and garden, too big for me, that I maintain to have space for DC to visit, which is a few times a year because of the distance. He lives in a rented flat, has some savings, but at a more "normal" level, I recognise I am very fortunate.

I have roughly the equivalent of the value of the house in savings and investments.

I have this idea that I could sell my big house and give the proceeds to DC as an early inheritance.

Then I would buy a much smaller, low maintenance place, possibly a flat in an upmarket block, using my savings and whatever DP is able to contribute.

I recognise that's a very good deal for him, and disadvantages my DC, but they don't do too badly out of it and I can't see a way for marriage to work unless you feel equal in it.

On my death DC would get everything, except the flat which would go to him, albeit that there might not be much left for DC to inherit, they'd have already had their share.

It doesn't necessarily need to involve a wedding, but I would like to move towards living with him, which again is something I said I never would.

Tell me about the pitfalls?

I would definitely see a good solicitor (ask around).

What I have done is this. Dp and I have bought a house as tenants in common. I own 70%, he owns 30%. It has a big downstairs with potential to operate as a single level flat, plus it’s on a bus route and near a shop, doctor etc. We’ve made wills in contemplation of marriage. In the wills, all our cash goes to our respective children, and we each have the right to live in the house for 5 years after the other’s death. We each inherit a small survivor’s pension from each other. For now, I am holding on to most of my cash because I have witnessed what it is like for elderly relatives who have no choices about their care options. We will get married next year.

Personally, I really wouldn’t be too quick to hand over all the money to your children, or to make yourself poorer in any way so you match your partner - that sounds a bit crazy if I’m honest. But if you want to get married, do so.

Personally I’d sell the big house and buy somewhere smaller in your name only, release cash to give to the kids now, and then move into partner’s place and rent out the smaller place you bought. If you got divorced you could end the tenancy and move into the smaller place; if not on death you could will the smaller place to the DC.

My understanding is there is no such thing as a “watertight pre nup” in England.

it is still the courts decision and they can override. He would also need to get his own legal advice before signing.

again much depends on age. If they are living together a long time and he contributes to costs, maintenance etc he may have a legal interest.

An accountant isn’t needed. Unless you already use one for tax purposes. We use a wealth management company for managing our wealth. This is about investments, tax planning, future needs, and maximizing our income. Solicitors (and you need a specialist one) will draw up a pre nup and give advice on trusts and wills. They can look at all scenarios with you. If you gift a large amount you must have proof of this so everyone knows when the 7 years is up. Talk to dc about protecting the gifts.

See, I'm not sure if that's the 'right' thing to do.

If it ends up being a 10/20 year marriage, why shouldn't he inherit, at least something? By that point won't her assets at least partly be the assets of the marriage.

Plus has anyone ever seen this thing where he's allowed to stay work well? I've only seen it done twice irl but it's been horrible for all concerned, with DC "encouraging" the bereft partner to sell up and the surviving spouse in a house two large for them, which wasn't being maintained and the DC constantly concerned about the state of their inheritance.

Yes, this is what I'm thinking. I'm late 50s, he's a bit younger.

Because it would be his home, because he'll have contributed to the upkeep of it in time and financial contribution (by virtue of sharing running costs) because I wouldn't want him to have to leave if I died or to feel that he was delaying DC inheritance. Because I don't think sharing a home on such an unequal basis would make for a good relationship or a happy life.

Not everything is about inheritance.

Yes, that too. If I leave my share to DC, he'll (could) leave his share elsewhere and I'll be in the situation where I'm allowed to stay but "someone" would prefer I didn't.

What happens to him when you die?

Potentially an elderly man, with nowhere to live?

Thank you - interesting. I can’t imagine why anyone would feel the need to marry, especially at this stage in life. My husband and I have worked very hard and made sacrifices to have what we have and I wouldn’t want anyone other than our children to benefit from that, especially the ‘half’ my husband has contributed.

Whether we're married or not, I wouldn't want to leave a situation where he's evicted when I doe or where there's conflict over when he should leave. I've seen that happen twice irl and it was horrible for the DC and the surviving spouse.

Because some people don’t want to live together before marriage, and they love each other and want to live together?

Yes, I said that for several years, but at what point does what's left stop being late DH's estate and start being yours? At what point do you start using it to live your life or is it always about protecting it for DC? Is that how you live your life now, every decision about protecting DC inheritance or is the money for living your life?

What will happen to him if you die first?

I think the money side has some relevance, but I'm more surprised that you want to share your living space with another person. Downsizing to a flat makes sense, but could you bear to have another person around 100% of the time, after what seem to be several solo years? And in a small flat too, where there's no escape to the shed, or spare room! Your implication is that you want someone to look after you, but what if your partner's health fails and you end up being a carer? Possibly for a second time? My widowed friends are very reluctant to share their home again, and they enjoy the fact that they and their partners have their own space. This really needs very careful consideration.

From a child’s point of view, what you propose sounds perfectly reasonable. My father remarried in his sixties and has done something similar. The home he bought with his new wife will go to her when he dies but other assets will come to my sister and me. He has ensured that he has left his wife enough pension and cash to live on though. His wife’s will is currently written so the house passes to his children when she dies and we trust she won’t change it but all accept she could.

He’s in his eighties now and needs far less help and support than if he lived alone. She is younger than him so takes care of cleaning and cooking which he’d probably need more help with by now.

I agree with you that it’s not all about inheritance. My sister and I both prefer that he will hopefully have love and support as ages and have no issues that we may receive less by way of inheritance as a result.

I think your plan sounds sensible.

Your partner will be bringing you much comfort as you age, why shouldn't he benefit if you go first? Obviously you can sort it so he doesn't, but why?

An early inheritance is likely more useful to your DC than a lump in 30 years.

I know, and that's how I've felt until recently, but my parents both have failing health recently, and if they didn't have each other to work as a team and get by with each doing the bits they can, either my life would be much tougher or they'd be in a home.

Living alone is great when you're fit and well, not so much if you're not.

Also calculate the cost of a Care Home for two years. You might need one sometime.
We are in a similar situation, we would like to make over to our 40 something DCs some serious money but who knows what we might need?
We are also staying put in bigger house, I enjoy the garden and I enjoy the memories.

Plus as you get older life gets smaller. You're less able to do your old hobbies, your friends get older and die, you're less able to get out. If you live alone you can go days without seeing anyone.

I feel very strongly that my husband’s ‘half’ is for me to use as I need but everything left after I’ve died is for our children. I certainly wouldn’t be enabling a more comfortable old age for a man who has ‘less’ regardless of my feelings towards him. If I were to have another relationship it would be strictly 50/50 and certainly no claim on house or assets.

Yes, I’m a widow, and I’d say that if you love this guy, then marry him.

Yes, of course protect your kid’s ‘maybe’ inheritance (care costs soon rack up) but live your life - you’ve only got one! 👍

Are you sure he would actually support you and not be the useless type?

Ok. So how do you go about creating this mythical situation where the man you'd like to grow old with has exactly the same financial situation as you? Does the same apply in reverse?

If you love a new partner, why wouldn't you want hin to have a comfortable life? DC will be doing very nicely anyway.

I can't be sure, no. But he's been amazing with helping me support my parents, he does things like bring me dinner when I've worked late and he's been a big practical support for my younger DS, who was initially a failure to launch situation, and is doing much better now.