Domestic abuse and victim blaming on MN?

[BeBlueSeal]

After I feel like hijacking many vulnerable women’s threads, thought it’d be interesting to start a conversation about this in its own right.

I love Mumsnet. I’ve used it and read it since I became a Mum 20 years ago. I love how it’s a female focused environment with smart clever women. Three babies in it’s still very much my go-to, googling any baby related issue. I’ll put “Mumsnet” on the end of my search because I value the input of “mumsnetters”!

I am genuinely disturbed by how many domestic violence related threads I see on here with victim blaming language constantly thrown around.

Why don’t you tell him to fuck Off?
i wouldn’t stand for this
i I would have done X, I would have done Y.
staying for the children ha ha ha ha are you serious?
you need to be stronger.
Are you a doormat?
Why did you have children with this man? Why did you have another child with this man?
How can you put your kids through this? I wouldn’t stand for this.
You’re not five years old.

Is there a fundamental misunderstanding here as to what domestic abuse actually is among swathes of women who have never experienced it?

why are so many people on this site unable to grasp that they do not understand or know what it’s like to be in this position ?

when I was in refuge with my babies, I met so many wonderful women. Intelligent, vibrant, wonderful women. Why does the cliche still exist on this site that DV victims need to “wake up”, tell their abusers to “fuck off” and “stop having kids”?

I have a friend going through this as we speak. She’s finally ended it with him but the house is shared and he’s currently sofa surfing at his parents. No doubt he will start to worm his way back in shortly.

She keeps me updated and has valued my tough love advice. She specifically said “I can’t go to mum because she will just tell me what I want to hear.”

I stand by being blunt as a spoon.

For example he’s been calling her fat after having a baby. I said “he can hardly talk, he’s a fat cunt himself” to which we both wet ourselves laughing over a bottle of wine.

You are talking about your friend, her circumstance, someone you KNOW.

not a vulnerable stranger. I can’t imagine “wetting myself laughing over a bottle of wine” so soon after what I went through personally.

That’s appears to be the theme of the thread. You’re viewing this from your perspective and feelings due to your experiences.

Not everyone will receive advice (they have asked for no less) in the same way.

My friend has been through Hell, she’s still going through it and there is more yet to come.

Being able to get out of her house and vent to a friend or even laugh for the first time in months is a very healthy thing to do, whether you’d have been up for that or not.

@makka
i too have complicated feelings about my mother. She faced societal and family pressures to stay. Yet she was the only person who could have protected her children.

It is incredibly difficult to read post after post by women who are repeating the pattern. I don’t deny many of them are in difficult situations. It’s that they downplay the impact on their children where I object.

I try to focus my energy on being a voice for prevention. Any woman can be abused, but no woman should ever be in a position that she can’t leave because of resources. Having an exit plan in place, even when you are in love should always be at the back of every woman’s mind. Always being capable of supporting yourself and your children is critical, even if there would be short-term logistical issues with leaving. This is something we should be teaching our daughter’s.

We can’t fix the situation for women who are already trapped, but we can try to shift the culture and stop it happening to more women and children in the future. Men will always abuse. I wish they wouldn’t, but they will. We can only make sure the mothers are prepared.

Every single case of DV is complex and unique. I can’t possibly compare my experience and feelings to any other woman.

what I can be sure of is saying things like, you’re an actual adult with options, or why do
you keep having children with this man, are rarely going to be helpful. That isn’t “blunt” - it’s patronising and unhelpful.

Do you remind her how she must have no self esteem or no self worth to be with him, do you remind her or explain to her that 'I wouldnt stand for that, he would have been out the door by now', do you keep questioning her about why she is or was with him, do you keep questioning her about why she chose to have kids with him, or more than once, do you interrogate her about why she isnt or hasnt moved fast enough, do you interrogate her about why she hasnt done anything before now, do you remind her she is a shit and abusive mother for being with him and exposing her children to him

And if you do, how is that validating and empowering for her?

Because those are the sort of messages OP is talking about. Not sharing a laugh with someone to help them see how rude and awful the husband is.

@Ponderingwindow wonderful post. 100% behind you.

Absolutely this. Men do abuse and women need to have support to leave and I don’t want any woman to suffer at the hands of a man but in some situations there are absolutely signs that he’s not a good person and if I see a thread on here about a new boyfriend who is controlling and showing red flags, I’m not going to keep quiet.

That’s precisely what happened when a friend got with a an absolute ‘wrong’n’. I didn’t want her to suffer but she ignored the advice we gave and had a baby with him and now the aftermath is enduring. To be fair to her she did get out pretty fast but it was difficult and I supported her though it but unfortunately like my mam, she makes poor choices in general and wonders why her life isn’t great and that she must be unlucky! She always gone out with idiots and she’s now with a guy who isn’t abusive but he’s a waste of space, doesn’t work much, is selfish, never puts her first and I have to shake my head. You tell him to piss off and move on. They aren’t tied financially, the don’t live together and I’ve said if you stay with him this is as good as it’s going to get, being let down continuously and you’re well wth more, but it’s her choice.

I have another friend who had ten idyllic life, very supportive parents, never had to worry about money and had what I could dream of as charmed life and she went out with a loser and low and behold they had a baby and it didn’t work out and whilst he wasn’t abusive as such he was clearly never going to be a good dad….. ( went to prison for drugs) fast forward her daughter now an adult who has her own two kids (got pregnant at 15!) and one of the kids is in care so hasn’t had a great start and it was primarily due to the shit choice of baby father my friend chose. The negative impact is tragic and the daughter doesn’t speak to her now and went off the rails and we could see that coming a mile off. She also had another couple of boyfriends that she was with for years who again were absolute idiots and as soon as we (our friendship group) met them we were just like 🙄 Nooooooo but of course we couldn’t say that directly. Choices do have implication for reasons and for generations potentially and I didn’t want any of my friends to be in the situations tehu are now, one always looking over her shoulder and the other depressed because her daughter won’t speak to her and she doenst see her grandchildren. It’s just awful but avoidable whisk is the worst part of it.

I’m sorry to hear you had a complicated childhood too, it’s so difficult and you’re right the feelings are complicated and I think when you have your own children it makes the feelings even more complicated as you wonder why and how etc

Me and my friend do go in to all of the above and we even laugh. We discus every aspect of the whys and how’s and she does own it so I agree with @TheBooBox you can be a good supportive friend without being scared to be completely open and honest.

My friend says it was the biggest mistake she’s ever made but that the lust feelings that we all get at the beginning of a relationship are what kept her in it. It’s not about placing blame on her but talking through why she continued and that’s the conclusion that we came to. She described it as a drug (the love drug) and we can all relate to that. I’m open and honest with her and she did leave and had counselling but we still discus how vile he was and is. As I say she’s now with someone else and he’s a waste of space though a nice guy and she complains about him and I’m like “Well if you stay with him you’ll never be put first, you’ll always feel resentful so move on buy she says she’d rather stay as she doesn’t want to be alone, which is fair enough but nothing will be different unless she changes aspects of her life. It’s not all about self esteem. We laugh, we complain, we pit the world to rights, I tell her when I think she’s making a choice that will have negative consequences for her and we talk it through.

Most importantly we all learn from our mistakes and that’s why it’s good to be open and honest as it gives them a chance to reflect the why’s and hows.

And forgot to add, she didn’t move in with this one as he didn’t want to otherwise she’d have moved in with him within a month no doubt and I tell her that directly and that I’m pleased he didn’t want to move in together otherwise she’d have lost her council house and that would have been an utter disaster! She laughs and says I know you’re right so it’s not all doom and gloom

I think we need to remember DV is a spectrum. I mean… laughing, not all doom and gloom, wetting yourself laughing over a bottle of wine - I’m always happy when people are happy ! But for many of us who have been sexually assaulted, raped, beaten - that day is never going to come. I am never going to be able to laugh.

I think it’s sad you feel that way.

The friend I’m talking about has a history of terrible partners. The man she was with before this current loser was even worse, he battered the shit out her more than once and the final time was whilst she was pregnant. She made the choice to terminate and leave, but it still took her a year to properly leave with police involvement.

You will laugh again.

I’m very aware and have acknowledged several times all situations aren’t the same. I don’t want any child to have to live through and suffer prolonged abuse and the childhood trauma that they will have to carry through and live with forever and the consequences it will have on their adult relationships. Children can’t keep themselves safe, they can’t make any choices, they relay on adults to keep them safe and in some situations adults can’t do that. If I can advise young and or vulnerable woman on things to look out for, such as red flags etc….with the intention to prevent them from getting in to a horrific situation and being able to recognise what we now know as ‘love bombing/gaslighting’ for themselves and their kids then I will speak up.

Having to drag yourself up as there is no one to keep you safe as a child does that to a persons and makes them view the world in a different way and sometimes I can even laugh about the shit card I was deat despite the anger

I think there is a misconception that if a woman alleges domestic abuse it's like saying magic words which will remove the father of her children from their lives overnight. You see it in other contexts where it's men (and women) lamenting the fact that it's so easy for women to take away kids from their loving fathers in this way. And that the family courts are so biased towards men etc. And you see it here where people presumably believe the mother is telling the truth about DV but are baffled that she hasn't just used the immense power women have in the family courts to remove the negative influence from their lives. Even when the father isn't abusive/physically abusive there is a lot of "well I just wouldn't let my children be around a man like that"

The reality is that you usually have to prove DV, the police can be very good or very bad but it's never as simple as saying DV and them arresting and convicting the bad man. And family courts won't withhold contact on one parents say so alone. In fact the disproved theory of "parental alienation" means talking about DV can make things worse not better.

That's not to say women shouldn't be encouraged to leave their partners or that help isn't out there. They should and there is. But some people who have never been through it are convinced it's "simple". The same way people who have never had a severely disabled child might assume that there are loads of benefits available and you get given a massive council house and all the welfare you could want.