Domestic abuse and victim blaming on MN?

[BeBlueSeal]

After I feel like hijacking many vulnerable women’s threads, thought it’d be interesting to start a conversation about this in its own right.

I love Mumsnet. I’ve used it and read it since I became a Mum 20 years ago. I love how it’s a female focused environment with smart clever women. Three babies in it’s still very much my go-to, googling any baby related issue. I’ll put “Mumsnet” on the end of my search because I value the input of “mumsnetters”!

I am genuinely disturbed by how many domestic violence related threads I see on here with victim blaming language constantly thrown around.

Why don’t you tell him to fuck Off?
i wouldn’t stand for this
i I would have done X, I would have done Y.
staying for the children ha ha ha ha are you serious?
you need to be stronger.
Are you a doormat?
Why did you have children with this man? Why did you have another child with this man?
How can you put your kids through this? I wouldn’t stand for this.
You’re not five years old.

Is there a fundamental misunderstanding here as to what domestic abuse actually is among swathes of women who have never experienced it?

why are so many people on this site unable to grasp that they do not understand or know what it’s like to be in this position ?

when I was in refuge with my babies, I met so many wonderful women. Intelligent, vibrant, wonderful women. Why does the cliche still exist on this site that DV victims need to “wake up”, tell their abusers to “fuck off” and “stop having kids”?

Its bullying most of the time and does nothing to support the OP to develop strategies and steps to protect herself or leave or get advice or to problem solve. Its just a load of angry posts with one liners that the OP in this thread has set out.

Nah, I think you get the occasional passive aggressive wanker that’s just like:
“I wOuLD neva TolErate ThaT”.
but I mean mostly they get called out for being a wanker. And that gonna be like one person in like 50 replies. You get jerks in ever post.

But I’d separate that from people who are telling her it like it is.

I certainly have but even if its 'just' on threads where a partner or husband might have bad habits or doesnt pull his weight or things arent right, do you think its helpful to 'shock' someone or berate them for 'I wouldnt stand for this, where is your self worth' and other such nuggets.

There was a thread recently about a woman who for some reason seemed to have an unrealeated man living as a lodger in her home, as a favour to someone else (think it was her daughter) and he was a mess, a nuisance, disrespectful etc etc. The entire thread was about how she had no self esteem, no self worth, why is she letting this man walk all over her, hasnt she used her words, doesnt she have any self respect, does she think so little of herself she is allowing this, etc etc etc. The list was endless

Very very few people, only me and a couple of others were trying to establish with her what actual steps she needed to take, who could support her, what practical steps to take, what money she needed etc etc. Our voices were lost in the reams of one liner posts just putting the OP down for basicallly being so stupid that she offered a room to this bloke. Helpful eh?

If the comment is unkind then MN can remove it?

I always point out the harm to children as they are the silent victims - this abuse they witness on a daily basis forms a part of them for life, it influences their future relationship choices, their mental health and in turn impacts most aspects of their life, some will be violent to their own partners, they might be jobless, they might turn into addicts, the stats for those growing up in these households are v hard

Most mothers do not realise this - and this is the reason why children are removed from families where DV is present. It’s because the impact is life long!

I think the threads offer a good balance, many offer advice on WA, safety strategies etc and some offer a few cold truths

Harm limitation advice and confidence building. If a woman isn't ready to leave its because she is at such a low ebb she can't imagine being able to survive without her abuser or imagine herself capable of or deserving of another life. She may also, with cause, fear if she leaves he will kill her or that she will lose the ability to protect her children.
Advice should be giving her information on support available and how to stay as safe as she can in the meantime. It should never scold, blame or coerce her. She has enough of this at home and it will just add to her lack of self confidence and self worth. Both of which she needs in order to leave.

Telling it like it is, yes I know that type.

You're not helpful, you're just using it as a chance to keyboard warrior mouth off at someone whos struggling. I cringe when I see posts like that.

I’m sure you don’t mean it @Ilovelurchersbut quite a few of your posts sound like you think nobody should be advising women to leave abusive relationships at all. I think that many posters get it wrong and some are far too harsh. But, ultimately, it is absolutely the right thing to tell abused women who ask that 1) I wouldn’t accept that from a partner and 2) of course you can, and should, leave.

Oh don’t be silly. Again with the ridiculous overreaching.

Oh and, you know what, when I was going though abuse I very much could have done with someone to say “what the fuck are you playing at? He’s a loser. He doesn’t like you and you need to get the fuck out of there”.

It’ll depend on the person and the situation of course. But why do you think no one could handle hearing that?

If just one person had cared enough to notice and say that to me I might have thought “you’re right, he is a bellend and I don’t deserve it”. But no one did.

If I could go back now it’s exactly what I would say to myself.

Can people be harsh, sure. Is it the best course of action for someone on here? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Always alongside practicalities like HOW to leave and, helplines for who they can speak to etc…

Sometimes you don’t care about yourself until a loud voice reminds you you should. That it’s ok to. Helps you find your anger. Helps you find your voice again.

likelysuspect

I wasn’t saying I agree, just what people might think they’re doing

You're deliberatly twisting what people are calling out on this thread. This isnt about highlighting the husbands behaviour and saying what it means, its about when the OP herself is berated, much by saying 'what the fuck do you think you are playing at'

You may be the rare type that would be motivated by that, but most people would be upset, scolded, berated. They would feel put down and unsupported. Its a shame you cannot see that. And Im talking about much worse as well, the information in the OP of this thread sets out examples as do my own posts of women basically being told off and that they've made a shit choice and what does it say about them. It questions their whole life choices, and integrity and abilities. That is not what someone needs to hear when they're at rock bottom.

I agree with a lot of this and my experience as a child seen through him and the red flags were evident and clear as day and I desperately didn’t want her to end up stuck with him. She didn’t suffer abuse as a child so it seemed illogical to me that she wouldn’t run for the hills. The truth is was that she didn’t want to be on her own and despite us warning her and trying to help , she didn’t take heed and it has been a difficult time for her and I do feel sorry for her, but equally you can only lead a house to water. It was so preventable. That’s the frustrating bit and how she wishes she’d listened to her own gut as well as others.

A lot of us who apparently "victim-blame" believe women are actual adults with options. It can be extremely frustrating to see a women in a terrible situation, but with very little willingness or ability to do something to change her circumstances. It's especially frustrating when innocent children are involved, and the woman STILL doesn't see the urgency of leaving an abusive milieu. No one is blaming women for being abused, but you can't really complain that people with healthy boundaries don't understanding why someone would let another person beat them, degrade them and treat them badly. I don't think the onus is for people to stop questioning women who don't leave abusive partners, homes, etc. We should ask these questions, because it's important that we come together as a society to show how unacceptable abuse is. To both perpetrate it and tolerate it.

There's just no excuse for "well why did you have children with this man" though.

I've only seen that on threads about useless, lazy men. Not domestic abuse. I have seen women advised to double up on contraception though, which I think is sensible advice.

exacty, thats not ok

And I can see already people are minimising this by saying 'oh I never see it about DV (and I have) but just lazy husbands'

Well its still not ok.

IM not twisting anything, you’re just jumping to weird conclusions that I am.

I very clearly said that people who make hurtful comments are usually put back in their box. But some of ops initial posts could be absolutely fine based on context.

For example, “I would have done x or y or z”. Potentially absolutely valid.

Potentially valid , but all too often it’s “I would have told him to fuck off” which is obviously unhelpful and silly.

Again, I think the examples I have given are generally cruel and unhelpful. I have no issue with people being blunt, offering different tones - but it should always be done with empathy and respect. Did I have the willingness and ability to escape to refuge sooner? Of course. I was very willing and able. But I was also terrified of my husband killing me, hurting our children, or setting fire to our home. When you are already beaten down to nothing, living in fear, it’s not as simple as being willing and able.

I keep replaying the line about being an actual adult with options.

yes… on paper

if I look back at myself, heavily pregnant, with my toddler too, in a one room flat with no bank card, no phone, barely any food, bruised, sleep deprived, holes in the wall and doors - I mean if you went back in time and said to me, you’re an actual adult with options. I don’t know how I would have processed that. It’s such an oversimplification.

I'm so very sorry you endured that @BeBlueSeal

I keep replaying the line about being an actual adult with options

Being an adult with options is a half-truth. The fact is that while theoretically true, it often actually isn't in practise.

It can be potentially true though. But life just isn't that simple that someone at 18 who is still learning about life and might have a number of vulnerabilities and a child is a fully functioning capable adult, same as someone in their 40's.

I also suspect that people who haven’t experienced it don’t really understand

and lots of people like to make out that it could never happen to them because they are too strong, too sensible, too wise. A comfort blanket thought pattern.

Exactly and being berated for why you dont have more self respect or self worth or why arent you listening and acting on what posters are saying wouldnt have enthused and motivated you I doubt.

Yes, you often get the 'I couldnt get over that' or 'I wouldnt stand for that', 'I'd be out the door by now'.

Keyboard warriors.

Definitely not.

the one thing that helped me to flee to refuge was the realisation that everything practical
would be taken care of. From QR code
door to door train tickets, to my social worker offering suitcases. Help was not a vague concept anymore. That is the message we need to get out on these posts. Police, refuge, social workers - HELP