Conversation style - is this an English thing

[SE4mum]

I’m English but recently made a social group of friends from other countries through an activity - German, French and Indian. They’re lovely and what I’m going to say isn’t a problem- more of an observation.

I’ve noticed that when I say something mildly self deprecating, they tend to take it at face value rather than laugh it off.

For example, I’ve mentioned my son’s laziness regarding homework and my full fat Coke addiction. Now among my largely English school parent friendship group, that sort of thing would receive a ‘oh, same here’ or ‘you should see my kid!’ kind of response. But among my new friends, it’s more ‘oh dear, coke is terrible for you. Can you switch to water some of the time?’ or ‘oh no, you should tell his head of year about it and get them on board’

It’s made me wonder if my normal conversation might come across as weird to other cultures? They never seem to talk about themselves this way.

So if you are not English, is this something you’ve noticed and how does it make you feel? Is it annoying?

Ps in case I sound insular and wide-eyed - I’m mixed race (but born and raised in England), I’ve travelled a lot, worked abroad, and am not naive to other cultures, but this is something that has weirdly just become apparent to me

I do think (persistent, exaggerated) self-deprecation is an English thing, possibly British. Others do do it, but just not as much, is my impression.

Have a look at Watching The English by Kate Fox.

I shall- bet it’s a fascinating read!

Well I'm English OP and if you made that statement my reaction would be the same as your German, French and Indian friends. I would find it concerning and certainly not something to laugh off.

I think it's quite normal for English people. I even know people who will talk about more serious things like their abusive or difficult childhoods as if talking about a black comedy. Gallows type humour is also very common in people working in healthcare and education in the UK.

That’s the spirit.

really? Concerned? I find that hilarious sorry ! I don’t think my new friends are even remotely ‘concerned’ as such- it’s just how they relate differently to things I say

I mean, it’s not like I said I’m addicted to meth and my child hasn’t been to school for 3 years

Yes, self-deprecation, and the expectation that everyone else will join in, is highly culture-specific, and can be puzzling to other cultures, who don’t see it as an obligation to join in with ever more self-deprecating stories. It’s also quite gendered.

I’m not originally from the UK (though from a culture that also does a version of this) and I remember being amused at a baby group I used to go to in England where the conversation invariably went

Nice top, Chloe.

This old thing? Charity shop five years ago! It barely fits now — I’m like a whale since having Diego.

You are not! Look at me, I’m so fat I’m still maternity jeans!

Im so fat I look like a Weeble!

etc etc.

ETA And yes, to people from some cultures that don’t do this kind of performative self-deprecation with the understanding that everyone else joins in with (saying they personally drank 16 cokes the day before and have a teenager so lazy they have to tie his shoelaces), it can look as if you are expressing a desire for help or advice with an actual problem.

Yeah I’ve definitely noticed this working with Americans. Self deprecating comments are kind of a bonding mechanism in English culture whereas if I say such things around American colleagues they find it pitiful 😳😬🤣

i know exactly what you mean op, both your comments, said with a laugh, sound like typical lighthearted chat between friends who all know where the line is between ‘I’m exaggerating a mild truth to share a joke at my own expense’ and ‘I’m divulging a problem that’s bothering me, please help’

I think this line is probably in different places in different cultures - and the British are known for being particularly dry/sarcastic.

also if English is a second language for your friends, it might be hard to read these sub-contexts when translating?

id be interested to hear from non-native English speakers too, to hear their interpretation

Yes I 💯 agree with you OP. Several of my colleagues are from other European countries and this is definitely a UK thing!

Yes I do get that look of pity and then part of me gets a bit unjustly annoyed, because in my mind I’m thinking ‘look I know none of you are perfect, it’s just that I choose to be honest about my issues, while you never mention the very apparent fact that you for eg smoke like a chimney ’ - then I have to remind myself that they probably just think they are being polite by validating me. It’s such a tangle!

But isn’t your annoyance partly that they don’t realise that they’re supposed, by British conversational rules, to join in, not to offer advice about how to cut down on coke or get your child to do homework? You see it as a bonding cue, they see you as asking for advice.

Ha. Yes. One of my Ddils is from overseas and it took a while for us to adjust to this.
Me "I'd look like Barbie's nan in that dress"
Her "Barbie, the doll? She has a grandma?"
Me: "I must have put three stone at least on on holiday"
Her: "How many kilo is that? I'm sure some will be water retention"

one of my oldest & closest friends is American and an absolute Anglophile - she understands the expectation of communal self-deprecation and participates on occasion. But I suspect sometimes she’d like us to be better at receiving compliments. Something to learn from both sides.

I live overseas and my colleagues are from different cultures and yes this is absolutely a thing.

I once joked to a german colleague that I didn't need childcare and that my kids were being looked after by their ipads (they were teens and perfectly capable of staying home alone) and they won't even notice I had gone to work - she then lectured me for 20 minutes on my poor parenting skills, when I said I was joking she thought I was being defensive and then continued to lecture me on taking responsibility for my poor parenting. I avoid her now.

This is one of the more extreme reactions, but there have been many mini confusing ones over the years where something I have said in jest has been taken literally.

It's one of the things I miss most about living in the UK, having someone to laugh with / mock my failings with in good humour. It all just feels a bit serious sometimes.

It can be annoying though when people do it to get compliments. Or when it’s humble bragging - I can’t get Johnny to do his homework I don’t know what the teachers are on though they seem to think he’s top of the class ha ha

I have noticed that I'm having to state "just joking" more often in company than I used to. It seems people take things much more literally these days. A bit like threads on MN that have (lighthearted) after the title.

What an interesting thread.

Ive spent a lot of time with Dutch people and they definitely take most things at face value and give you an equally face value reply. They often don’t recognise sarcasm, hyperbole or exaggeration and take it at face value and respond in kind. British people seem to assume that those things are the norm. It can get quite confusing and speaking at cross purposes at times.

It's the conversational equivalent of walking down the stairs and there being one less step than you expect so your foot jars on the floor. Urgh. Or throwing a ball to someone and they just let it drop on the floor and stare at you.

But, it is because that particular conversational method is very English. I lived in the Netherlands and mixed with people all over and it is noticeably different. I also had an American friend once (with genuine concern) tell me to stop doing myself down so much.

We're well known for it in UK. I have relatives from another country and, lovely as they are, they are rather earnest about everything. I find myself getting a bit bored with it and having to tone down my own slightly gallows humour.

My point is that can you generalise on grounds of nationality?
I'm Autistic and I generally take things at face value.

Yes, if you say normal funny things to Americans they can think you're having a breakdown. They are trained to be a sort of permanent (exhausting) PR company for their own life. It's not every culture, though. I worked with a lot of Mexicans with a dry sense of humour, and they're just next door to the US. Brazilians too, many with a keen sense of irony and an expectation you will grasp the unsaid thing. It's interesting when you work across different countries, what strange accords and discords you encounter. Not always what you'd expect.

There's a book, the Culture Map? I got it when I started working in a massively-multinational role and it has some interesting observations in it.

This gave me a proper belly laugh. Thanks. And to pp for their concern!!