Why do so many women in the UK, work full-time and also do the cooking cleaning and mental load at home..?

[GreenCandies]

Why ?

Why put up with it ?

Yes maternity leave/having a baby is often where the inequality begins

Maybe because just having a baby isn't respected as much as it should be?

Gender pay gap is a cause as well as a result of this. In majority of households, the man would outearn the woman and with that may come more responsibility and longer hours which would reduce their capacity to do some things at home at least until they get very senior in their roles

Well for me it’s because I live alone. No kids and DP lives in his own place. When he did live with me he did all the cleaning while I cooked.

Most of the relationships I have known and seen though, have actually started fairly equally. That's why they kind of fell into having children without a second thought - of course they'd keep doing their own bits of the house etc! But then the man takes his foot off the pedal, the woman picks up the slack because otherwise they are up to their knees in mess (which he often pretends he doesn't see).

I agree that some partnerships start out unbalanced, but I'm seeing more younger women insist that their DH takes an equal part in the housework etc when they first get together. But when a baby comes along they just don't have the energy to keep asking for help and their OHs don't take the initiative.

I had kids by myself but when I see friends putting up with this and frankly much worse it’s always because it turns up after they have kids (or at least wasn’t noticeable before) and once they have kids they feel they have to make it work if they possibly can. My guess is a reasonable number will call it a day once the kids are grown - and others just can’t admit even to themselves what a disastrously bad choice they made (ie the ones who’s partners are abusive not just lazy) - sadly with those ones I’m not sure they will ever call it.

As for why the men do it - it blows my mind - I guess some version of having kids and a job is hard and they see that they can get away with phoning it and their wife will step up (but I could never make that choice). I also think men aren’t brought up to understand the value you gain by looking after others - they just see it as a slog (which it is) whereas I at least see looking after my kids as a slog that at a fundamental level is weirdly fulfilling - then everyone talks about how men have mental health issues as they don’t see thier place in the world when fundamentally they’ve made the choice to be a contributor. I just had my 3 year old boy vacuuming the floor partially because I am determined he grows up not to be like that.

Because I feel its reasonably fair, we both access to our money, we both have our own spending money, which is equal, for fun stuff.

If we did split
I'd be be good

So we are both happy with our agreement

So you have curtailed your career and in exchange pick up more around the house.

Have I got that right @GreenCandies ?

How part time are you?

I think men have a deeply ingrained belief in their right to more leisure time. Because culturally, women’s work is seen as less important, men see it as beneath them, but also not as ‘real’ or hard work.

Today they did park run, and FIL actually text me to say lucky me ‘enjoying a morning off’ (they were gone 90 min, and I cleaned the bathroom).

I hope you texted back asking FIL whether he really thinks it's your duty to be on 24/7 including the weekend.

Regarding the general distribution of work, what you need is several weeks of rigorous record keeping over time and chores. Get it all down on paper, including who of you has how much down time. Then work on redistributing.

Regarding holidays, I'd simply refuse to go on anything but fully catered hotel stays.

Because society still treats women as the default parent, caregiver and house elf whether she works or not. When kids enter the mix, women are often so exhausted they just go along with it and continue because they don't want to see their kids miss out.

*Regarding holidays, I'd simply refuse to go on anything but fully catered hotel stays.*is that because your DH won’t share the burden of catering on holiday with you?

Plenty of women who throw the head up are labelled a nag, a ballbreaker, he's henpecked, she keeps his balls in her purse, etc.

As a man here, I have no idea why women stay with men like that. I like to think that my DW and I split tasks roughly in inverse proportion to our working hours (she's always worked a lot longer than me and earned more, so I do more of the housework).

It helps that I was a teacher (recently retired) so I could spend lots of time with our DC during the school holidays. From conversations at work, I don't think I'm particularly unusual here... maybe teachers have a slightly different worldview or outlook?

The pertinent question here is why this was preferable to making your DH do his fair share of domestic labour?

No ud say moved in another direction, running own business, so actually I've actually learnt so much more and increased my skills massively, compared to when I was just employed

I didn't do this so I could pick up more around the house, as like most people I don't particularly enjoy that stuff, but more so for the lifestyle freedom and time with my children

And I've had to challenge things when needed along the way

Where do the men behave differently come from? I have family and friends with husbands from all over the world, and few are more hands on than the UK fathers/husbands. But UK parents seem to prioritise kids activities in a way many others countries doesn't (apart from Americans) and running kids to and from after school activities takes a parent not working full time, or a understanding and flexible WFH arrangement.

I have always done the lion's share of house and kids' stuff but l also work part time.

DH I'd semi retiring soon so my expectations of him will be very different and l can't wait to work more days than him so l can say "I've been at work and am tired!"

Zawn Villanes of Liberating Motherhood is good on this. Basically, they are buying their leisure time with your labour. They may say they care about you, but they care about their rest and leisure more.

Honestly? Maternity leave is far too long in the UK and sets a precedent. Yes, more and more men are taking extended parental leave too, but women are taking far longer off work. It’s no wonder inequality usually begins when a baby arrives.

When I was in school in the 2000s, I remember female teachers took 6 months off for a baby. When did it become the norm to take a year or more off?

I am in this situation but I feel like once I was married, had a baby, spent a year doing absolutely everything for the baby and home while on maternity leave and naturally did the research on baby toys, baby equipment, nursery, baby proofing, vaccinations, breastfeeding, did all the night times and health visitor visits, cooked the meals etc that by the time I went back to work it had naturally fallen on to me. At first we had a lot of arguments about it which he couldn't understand my point of view. I tried rotas and allocating tasks out but it just meant I took on another role of nagging him to do things he wouldn't do day to day let alone Christmas, birthdays, holidays, family visits, he'd happily stay in bed and forget all that exists but now we had a baby I felt we had to join in with the world. So I only had two choices: 1.stick with the marriage and put up with it, and have shared income, shared company, some back-up in emergencies, someone who would at least pick up milk on the way home when asked to 2. get divorced and continue to work full time and manage everything else on my own too. I know 100% I would still do the full load if we got divorced, there'd be no 50:50 custody. We get on well, I wouldn't be better off without him. Single women have to work full time and do all the mental load, housework and childcare too, I can't see how leaving would help me at all.

Because even though at the time when we had children and I was the higher earner, I was the one that wanted more time with them

Maybe in terms of house work etc and the children I already know deep down he doesn't care as much as I do, for example when my dd was little he wouldn't care if her hair was all matted and she went to school like that, like she did once when I was ill

Or if I was say really ill he wouldn't think as deeply as i do about their emotional wellbeing, such as have they had friends round lately etc
Has that school form the trip been filled in a returned on time etc
Or stuff like that got missed he'd say oh well, because he doesn't view it as important
Because its mot important to him

Where as its important to me, because its important to them
And that is a key difference
And I think alot, not all men, are like that

Good thing the majority of people in the country fundamentally disagree with you.
9 months of statutory maternity pay is too long??

As to the why this is acceptable, I'd advise posters to have a look at the concurrent thread started by someone who is suicidal from pain, parental exhaustion and overwork, and look at how many posters are tying themselves up in knots to advise her she do anything except make her DH pull his fucking weight 🙄

There's always the Swedish model. Two years of parental leave, with the second year on a use it or lose it basis for the second partner. Doesn't make them entirely equal but evens things out and gets employers used to both sexes taking parental leave.