Was I wrong to borrow from my mum's account and repay it?

[Acaciagirl]

Hi,
im 46 divorced and spend a lot of time looking after my mum. She’s 80 and has some issues- mobility etc. she’s also getting confused over things- this being investigated.

I have power of attorney over her money and health. She has a property worth 300k ish mortgage free, about 200k saved and a very good monthly income,

I struggle financially and have, on occasions borrowed from mums account and then paid it back asap. I’ve not asked mum beforehand as she’d worry however I know that she would always help me.

I mentioned this to a friend who said that what I’ve done is terrible and that I should be ashamed. I feel awful now. I’ve never taken money with the intention of keeping it, I’ve only ever borrowed. How do I live with myself now.

@Acaciagirl sorry remember a similar story from months ago.
Btw....its still stealing however you dress it up

Sorry Op i also agree this is abuse of POA.

Would you walk into someone else's house OP and swipe cash left on the table, but think it was fine because you paid it back and they didn't notice?

Did she lend you money beforehand?

It sounds like you and your Mum are very close so why on earth won’t you just talk to her and ask if you can borrow the money for a short time as you are struggling and then pay her back.
Its very strange you would rather steal the money than ask to borrow if you know she wouldn’t mind!

Yes. That’s wrong.

I can't see the problem if you've paid back the same amounts that you've borrowed into the account.

Yes a couple of times but many moons ago

I understand your point but I really never felt it was stealing

"She’s 80 and has some issues- mobility etc. she’s also getting confused over things- this being investigated."

"I’ve not asked mum beforehand as she’d worry however I know that she would always help me."

First question, did your DM tick the box to say that you can act for her before she loses capacity, or only once she lost capacity?

Second question, does your DM have capacity for any financial decisions?

If she still has capacity, you can legitimately ask her for permission to borrow money. It's best to do this with a witness. However, if she does not have capacity and you are acting as her attorney, you can't borrow money.

Are you eligible for Carers Allowance?

No I’m not

@Acaciagirl
This would be perfectly fine in my family and extended family.
White British culture generally won’t agree because the boundaries between individuals, and nuclear families are structured in a different way, so I completely understand where your friend is coming from, but in my culture what you have done would not be a problem, it would be seen as a thoughtful approach to a situation in which you find yourself.

It's taking money without her consent though, yes? Technically theft is dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it. It's dishonest to say that you will act in the best interests of your DM (the declaration you make as an attorney) and to then act in your own best interests (spending her money on yourself). Until you return the money, it's not clear that you intended to return it.

That is not what acting as POA is meant to be for. It is meant to be in the account holder’s best interests. Not the op’s interests.

But it's the law. This isn't about family relationships. This is about @Acaciagirl signing a document to say that she will act in her DM's best interests and officially taking on the role of attorney. There is a document registered with the Office of the Public Guardian which states this and she has been appointed as her DM's legal representative. It's a huge responsibility and holds legal standing.

My understanding though is that it is actually against the law.

Except by your own admission you have.No, you have not harmed your mother, or her finances, but you have abused her trust in agreeing to your POA , so yes, that is abusive. And illegal.

The thing is you have crossed over the line , several times, and you know that the temptation will always be to do it again, and again , and again. Pay off a credit card here, pay for emergency repairs to your car/ house there, treat yourself to a little holiday to compensate for the time you spend with your mum, buy a few nice Christmas presents……..before you know it there is no possibility of paying the money back into her account and you will be in serious trouble.

It’s not acceptable here because of the LPA. It isn’t a cultural, familial, or personal thing. It’s a legal issue.

People with LPA must only use it to benefit the Donor. Otherwise the donor is very vulnerable to exploitation.

And OP is vulnerable to being removed from role and possibly prosecuted for abusing the LPA.

OP, don’t worry about it now. You must not do it again though, regardless of how good your intentions are. It could bite you on the bum and stop you helping your mum.

Far better to tell your mum it’s a struggle and ask whether she’d consider paying you a token monthly amount to make things easier.

It’s not about family structure and boundaries, it’s the law. From the Mental Capacity Act Code of Practice: “Attorneys must not profit or get any personal benefit from their position”. “An attorney can only make gifts…on specific occasions, including births or birthdays [etc.]”

I think the question is has anybody suffered because of this? And they haven't, not at all. I don't think you've done anything bad OP, and you haven't made your DM worry on your behalf.

Yes, you shouldn’t have done that. Tell her what you did and why and that you’ve realised you should have asked beforehand. And ask the next time, if there is a next time.

Yes this is what DH’s family has done for the relative they hold LPA for. Her money is being used for her care home fees and the only other expenditure has been a gift for grandkids at xmas and birthdays, as that is what the relative used to do (and there is evidence to show that).

This is not OK - surprised people are reassuring you. The money isn’t yours, doesn’t belong to you and you can’t just take it. It’s very simple? If you need money ask your Mum. I don’t buy the fact that you didn’t because she’d then give it to you - if you were being honest you could simply pay it back as you have done.
Not cool.

It is indeed. What the OP is doing is illegal.